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Native visionOS platform support

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Re: Native visionOS platform support

#331

Post by nomel »

vFunct wrote: post #282
nomel wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HoloLens 1 had nearly 40% higher PPD (47) than Apple Vision Pro (34).

So you're saying HoloLens had a tiny field-of-view because of its limited resolution?

Sure, but that PPD number is what prevents me from using these headsets as a primary display replacement. I personally don't need a virtual display that fills 100 degrees of my vision and would happily sacrifice FOV for something usable.

This is from someone who has spent hundreds of hours coding in VR, which currently requires big font sizes and screens that take up massive FOV, which I find very uncomfortable for extended periods.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#332

Post by numpad0 »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #33
fixprix wrote: post #18

Looks like Apple might be prioritizing gaming for the next gen Vision devices? Hopefully, as I know many, myself included that passed on the Vision because the gaming support wasn't there. Price was never an issue.

Does anyone in the industry care about VR gaming right now? I don't see people buying headsets, I don't see VR features in new major games, it's just not a thing outside of a probably shrinking niche.

  https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2015-02-07%202025-03-07&q=VRChat,HomePod

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#333

Post by wtallis »

waynecochran wrote: post #327
wtallis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PR to add the basic infrastructure for engine-level support was posted yesterday . There hasn't been enough time for anything to pass through App Store review yet, let alone all the work that has to happen before that, like writing and releasing the rest of the engine support for visionOS, and writing an application to use it.

I simply figured the folks who created this would have actually ported an actual app while in development as part of the process.

Expecting a demo application as proof of concept would have been reasonable. Expecting a shipping product in the customer-facing app store is entirely different.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#334

Post by numpad0 »

vFunct wrote: post #281
numpad0 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HoloLens 2 had higher pixel density than AVP at 2K horizontal resolution at 43deg HFOV. So yeah, you just didn't know HoloLens had 23megapixel displays to show high resolution text for coding, nearly a decade ago. The problem was the same as today. Dead numb market response to non-SteamVR VR/MR/AR/XR headsets.

HoloLens 1: 1280 x 720 (per eye) HoloLens 2: 2048 x 1080 (per eye) Vision Pro: 3660 x 3200 (per eye) Yah no one was gonna buy HoloLens as a desktop monitor replacement. It really was a crap product. People ARE using Vision Pro as a desktop monitor replacement.

> People ARE using Vision Pro as a desktop monitor replacement.

So do people with other headsets. AVP's uniqueness is that it's apparently useless for anything else whatsoever.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#335

Post by doctorpangloss »

karmakaze wrote: post #316
doctorpangloss wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are exactly zero people in the video game industry working on speculative AVP games. The ones who are thinking about it are not hesitating due to Godot support.

That's the situation now. It will be different when Godot is supported and the Apple Vision Air is released. Then anyone making VR games/apps will have a new target using standard (though less popular than Unity/UE5) development tooling. It will self-select those who find this reasonable.

Apple Vision Air will be a fart in the wind.

There are 1/10th-1/100th as many Godot developers as Unity and Unreal developers. If there are no games now, there won't be with Godot support. That said I want Godot AVP support to succeed, but there are other problems all in Apple's court.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#336

Post by [deleted] »

khazhoux wrote: post #289
asadotzler wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good means fit for purpose and a product your CEO pitched from the cover of Vanity Fair magazine and devoted half of his massive store real estate and staff to making successful that sells only about 350K units in the first year and projected to sell only about 150K units in its second year because even the huge number of in-store demos couldn't convince people to put PCs on their faces, is clearly not fit for purpos…

There are many definitions of “good.” But at the most fundamental, it is an amazing VR device. It excels for watching movies — the video quality is simply stunning. The immersive experiences from Apple are also jaw-dropping. So in terms of what the device IS, it’s a good product. Is that good enough to break into mass appeal? Evidence says No

[deleted]

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#337

Post by xp84 »

parasubvert wrote: post #298
xp84 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You assumed that models would stay that price forever?? Apple didn't bother to try to keep the cost down on this version, and for Apple, cost plus the margins they demand dictated the high price. > "How is 15% brutal to have access" Okay, first of all, 30%. We're not talking indie devs with > "They have continued to produce high quality immersive content. They have obviously continued to work on new versions. They…

Their priority is not selling a mass market low margin product. That is Meta‘s strategy, and they’ve lost nearly $100b because they think it’s the future of all computing. The thing is, Apple agrees. But they’re not the kind of company to burn that kind of capital. Vision Pro was all about selling an enthusiast device that pushes the boundaries of XR technology into what they thought was appropriate baseline that wou…

> Want them to

I mean, I don't care what they do (other than as a shareholder, lol. But it's not a major part of my portfolio.)

I just do not think they have made an impact on the mass-market -- and at their market cap, anything short of mass-market should be considered a failure and a distraction from products that actually sell.

"Horizon OS copying them" is flattering I guess, but they're not copying all the stupid things about AVP: The heavy, expensive metal construction, the silly outer display, the stupid tethered proprietary battery, the $3500 price tag. I do have a Quest 3 though, which is vaguely fun, but was an impulse buy I only occasionally use.

I've never even tried the AVP, and while that seems like a disqualification of me as a judge of it, that's just the point: I'm a geek. If even I dismiss it as a useless and overpriced toy, it will never be mass market, because normal people need more of a justification than I do to adopt a gadget. It needs to do something amazing that people immediately see the value of. Which is why I cited courtside NBA games (not a 10-minute short btw) as an example.

If Apple's 'game' is to make a niche device with no important apps and about 5,000 MAUs then they're playing it great.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#338

Post by kridsdale3 »

syndeo wrote: post #330
kridsdale3 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly yes. It's by far the highest quality implementation of 3D TV or 3D Film I have ever viewed. Avatar 2 and IMAX films in particular are stupendous. I really don't have an adjective to describe how much better stereo content in the VisionPro is over every other display device or theater.

Exactly. 3D TV wasn’t a bad idea. It was just pushed a bit too hard too soon. There’s a reason 3D movies are still popular in theaters; people genuinely enjoy them and are willing to pay at least some premium for them. Frankly, I’d much rather have a 3D TV than a “smart” TV.

The fact that the AVP gives you fully isolated video streams for each eye is what makes it kickass compared to any glasses-filtering based display. It's perfect stereo.

What sets it apart from things like Meta Quest is Apple's best-in-class video rental / stream / purchase infrastructure all going back to the original iTunes.

And then you have apps like Disney Plus that fully support it.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#339

Post by jitl »

bigyabai wrote: post #227
jitl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The media loves to spin Apple things as failures right up until the point when they’re a success. See coverage of iPhone, Apple Pay, iPad, etc. Even “Apple faithful” media like MacRumors.com will be measured but pessimistic about Apple’s new efforts because negativity drives clicks more than positivity across the board.

I don't think this is an Apple-exclusive phenomenon. Even if it was, the media would be pretty well-justified in reporting on a lifestyle product with diminished demand. I remember similar news coverage for the PS3, Shamwow, Google Glass, Juicero, Zune, Fire Phone, and so much more. It feels more like Apple users aren't used to acknowledging Apple's own failures. Because Apple refuses to admit certain products don't…

Agree this isn’t Apple exclusive. Mostly what I mean to say is that media tends to portray things as DOOMED if they aren’t amazingly successful right out of the gate. The Vision Pro v1 is not a great product but it’s also a super niche product given the price so expectations of 20M units are far fetched to begin with. It’s more of a Mac Pro tier product than a MacBook Pro 16 or a MacBook Air product, much less an iPad or iPhone type product in terms of addressed market. But I don’t think this means the product is an abject failure that should be cancelled and written off as a sunk cost / dead end.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#340

Post by intellix »

fouc wrote: post #307
intellix wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the HTC Vive quite a few years ago, using it a lot and constantly buying new games and experiences to try it out. It was a little annoying paying full whack for little 5-10min tech demos but was still encapsulated by it. Eventually got the wireless extension to avoid having to detangle the rope of a cable you were tethered to, but the base stations in the corner of the room were still annoying me cause you cons…

what about the non-entertainment factor? i.e. using Quest 3 or AVP to replace the monitor for development work?

you can't really use them for long durations of time because your face gets hot and sweaty, from my experience. It doesn't feel good to have something stuck to your face.

Also, the resolution still isn't good enough to see small text IMO.

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