Live data from Hacker News

A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

mattgiustwilliamson.substack.com

331–340 of 363 posts

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#331
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have founded multiple companies in Germany and in the US. Sure, in the US you have services like Stripe Atlas that make it a bit easier. But still, I would not say it's much crazier registering a company in Germany compared to the US. Of course, it helps if you have a bit of an idea of legal concepts and accounting, but to be honest, that also makes sense, since you are starting a business. This is not to say that…

You can essentially create an LLC in Delaware (from anywhere in the country) as easily as you can create an Amazon account, so that's a big claim.

And what do you use for a bank account?

That's been one hurdle I've seen when trying to found a business outside your own country.

The other hurdle was requirements for local directors (New Zealand, Cayman Islands)

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the definition of the word. Nowhere does pg say you can't start a non-startup business. >The founders I'm particularly impressed with are the ones who have such a nuanced understanding of capital efficiency that they do not require VC, and only take money much later in the cycle That isn't "understanding capital efficiency" it is called having enough capital already.

Your comment seems to suggest that you don't see any difference between "capital efficiency" and "having capital." The terms mean very different things. Capital efficiency is measured by metrics such as the cash conversion cycle. It's possible to design a business model in such a way that you have negative cash conversion cycles, which cause you to actually generate cash as a function of growth (even when unprofitabl…

>It's possible to design a business model in such a way that you have negative cash conversion cycles,

This seems like it would only be possible if your DPO is greater than the sum of your DIO and DSO. In other words, you are so tardy in paying your invoices (or good at negotiating payment terms, I suppose) that you manage to sit on cash worth more than the value of your inventory + outstanding receivables. That is... one way to run your business.

Maybe I am missing something but this seems like a house of cards. Eventually you need to pay your invoices, and time shifting that a bit doesn't actually make your business profitable.

Quite willing to accept I have missed something though.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#334
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I also think hiring someone for [government paperwork] would be the wise choice in most places anyway. I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. Is this why Germany has no globally relevant software (or hardware tbh) companies founded in the last 40 years? Are we sure we want to be holding up this model as an ex…

> I’m not sure if you’ve ever tried founding a business or fundraising in any other non-Germany country, but this is an insane thing to say imo. In the US, people also tell you pay an expensive lawyer to deal with government paperwork.

In the US, getting a lawyer just to incorporate is flushing money down the drain. At best you can do it yourself (and in most states it's not particularly complex), at worst there are cheap online services to help you.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#335

Here's a model that exists in Germany, which I like: You can present a business plan to the state's investment bank and apply for several financial aides, including: * 1.5 years of universal basic income for you plus up to 2 other people. It's a tiny amount of money, but the point is to free you up to invest your actual time an money into the business. You do not have to pay this back. * up to 20k EUR in "consulting…

I would love to see the actual long term statistics for this program and others like it, because from the outside looking in, it seems to produce a lot of zombie companies and companies that are wholly structured around financing themselves through more grants and other public programs.

The incentives are just bad all around. The “LP”s are lawmakers and politicians, but in the best case only insofar as the program is popular or contributed to economic good vibes that keep them in office and lawn. The "GP"s are bureaucrats with no skin in the game except for avoiding fraud and impropriety and keeping their management chain happy (ultimately reporting to politicians who can also have worst case incentives of directory the money towards, ahem, personally expedient things).

Then on the other side, clearly it is such a bureaucratic program that regular entrepreneurs struggle to navigate it. The accelerator you mention is spending potential teaching/helping time towards the goal of building a sustainable business on figuring out how to get money from the program (normally accelerators GIVE you money) - presumably they are coinvesting or taking a cut somehow, which ultimately means they are basically getting paid to shuttle people through the program [0]. And founders are spending time they should spend building and validating their product, or fundraising from people with skin in the game (who care about the important things and not so much whether form 47b was stamped by a notary), on figuring out how to get a grant.

In my opinion this kind of funding should be split between a much lower-bureaucracy and overhead public program (eg UBI) and the private sector. That makes the overhead for security “operational” startup expenses like housing/feeding the founders very very low, and directs “capital” startup expenses like buildings, equipment, and employees’ initial salaries more efficiently [1]. Or you can tax middle class workers less (you guys have really high payroll/VAT) and give them more control over their retirement money so it’s easier to build a solid amount of personal wealth to start a business.

IMO there is a misconception with new founders in general, including me when first starting a company, that you should spend a lot of time fundraising and need to get a big check to get started [2]. Programs like this make it worse because you spend crucial time building the company and your skills as a founder on passing some well-defined hurdle like “get the big grant” or “get accepted into program X” - it is your first major task as a startup founder - only to then be faced with the fact that almost *no future company task will be that well-defined*, and the realization that *you spent a lot of time “buying more time” to get to profitability when you could have just worked on that to begin with*.

[0] Unless you are a lawyer, in the US it's seen as corruption when private parties serve as paid facilitators and gatekeepers to public programs.

[1] One of the reasons it's hard to start a mid-sized company is that "traditional" lenders only want you to borrow things like equipment and buildings that you can get almost all the value back from if you fail, VC only want you to spend money on things with the possibility of yielding huge returns, and PE just have better opportunities than taking a chance on Joe Schmo. So if you can reach ramen-profitability without VC and only need traditional loans to get started it should be much easier to start a medium sized company.

[2] Obviously raising money can be essential or really beneficial, and it's a "founder task" but I think many people forget that it's not an end-unto-itself, but a way to get you from point A to point B. The only people who should truly see it as an end-unto-itself are people who just want to pay themselves and their friends with no intention of starting a sustainable business (that is also called fraud or scamming). Everybody else should just see it as a step on the path towards a sustainable business, and not a legitimizing mark/right of passage. Actually, if you take VC money on a convertible note to spend on stuff that you could have financed traditionally or didn't really need you are essentially giving away tons of upside with little change in downside.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can essentially create an LLC in Delaware (from anywhere in the country) as easily as you can create an Amazon account, so that's a big claim.

And what do you use for a bank account? That's been one hurdle I've seen when trying to found a business outside your own country. The other hurdle was requirements for local directors (New Zealand, Cayman Islands)

You walk into your nearest Chase (or similar) branch. Out in 10 mins.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#337
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what do you use for a bank account? That's been one hurdle I've seen when trying to found a business outside your own country. The other hurdle was requirements for local directors (New Zealand, Cayman Islands)

You walk into your nearest Chase (or similar) branch. Out in 10 mins.

The context is creating companies in another country.

The states hasn't yet devolved into separate countries (I'm not sure what advantages California gets from the union. But a Brexit is clearly a costly move).

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#338
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also connected to so much bureaucracy that you almost need to hire someone for that alone, because you wont have as much time for your actual business. Founding a company in Germany is so much unnecessary paperwork its crazy. Single handedly the only reason I will never try it in my home country.

I agree that the process is unnecessarily complex, but I also think hiring someone for that would be the wise choice in most places anyway. And even in Germany hiring someone for that would probably amount to paying 500-1000€ for the whole registration of the company instead of doing everything yourself and only paying the 100-200€ notary fees. It's not as bad as you might think. > I will never try it in my home coun…

Why would that be “a wise choice”?

I’m from Sweden and live in Switzerland. I know many people who have their own companies, and I was looking to start one myself before moving to Switzerland. It is SUPER EASY.

I’ve helped my wife become self employed in Switzerland. I do most of the admin work for her. Again, very straight forward.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can found a new company in Estonia in literal minutes without speaking a single word of Estonian and without being physically present in the country because the whole process is digital and in English. Bad example. When you incorporate in Estonia, if you come through eResidency, they are very clear and very open in stating that ANY interaction with tax office and/or judicial system WILL be and MUST be performed i…

Is that an practical issue? I imagine you wouldn't interact with the tax office anyway as you fill the taxes them electronically and as for the judicial system, you are going to need an Estonian lawyer anyway. Genuinely asking. Wondering if someone has experience doing business in Estonia. It looks pretty nice in the prospectus so would love to hear what the reality is.

In practical terms you can hire someone. Mind you if you hit an audit, those hourly fees quickly add up.

Also side note, Estonian companies have been recently overrun with Russians. I don't deal with EE companies anymore. Got burned too many times.

Re: A startup doesn't need to be a unicorn

#340
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still need to deal with business registration, taxes, accounting and so on. You can also create a GmbH in Germany by downloading a few free templates from the internet and making an appointment with a notary. It's a bit more expensive than creating an LLC, but not significantly (maybe a few hundred dollars). Especially since most of the cost come from running the business (tax filings, accountings, business regis…

I've done it a couple times, successfully, and it hasn't been my experience that getting started had any real paperwork complexity.

In the US, you mean?
Post reply on HN