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Convert Linux to Windows

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Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#331

Post by ur-whale »

mappu wrote: post #6

I think this attitude to the Linux ABI is maybe out of date - with a 20 year old Linux binary, that's only 2005, so it will almost certainly be using glibc (no archaic libc5). Glibc has great backwards compatibility and the binary will work on any glibc distribution today as long as you have all the .so's, same as needing the .dll's on Windows.

> Glibc has great backwards compatibility

We're clearly not living in the same universe here.

glibc backward compatibility is horrible.

Every. Single. Time. I try to use an old binary on a modern distro, it bombs, usually with some incomprehensible error message with GLIBC in all caps in it.

And these days, you can't even link glibc statically, when you try it barks at you with vehemence.

As a matter of fact, as pointed out in the article, this particular shortcoming of glibc completely negates the work done by Linus to keep userland backward compatible at all cost.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#333

Post by bentt »

DeathArrow wrote: post #224
bentt wrote: post #81

This is a wonderful idea and could succeed if the creator could rally the right devs and users. What it really needs is Ubuntu tier branding and UX work. This has been a rarity in the Linux desktop space. I am hopeful SteamOS will bring us something very similar.

>What it really needs is Ubuntu tier branding and UX work. That means somebody paying for the work. Designers and UX specialists don't care about free work like many programmers do.

Yeah Blender might be a good model here.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#334

Post by panzi »

nurettin wrote: post #125

> Try doing the same with a Linux binary that's just a year old. I do that all the time. Just link to a static glibc or musl.

Yeah, just my thought. Instead of all the effort and overhead and awful API of Win32 just statically link musl. Still, there are of course downsides and limitations to either approach.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#335

Post by regularfry »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #318
teo_zero wrote: post #220

I've read the article and the comments with interest. I just have a question: if Windows ABI is so stable that 20-year-old programs are guaranteed to run, why are there computers with Win95 or NT that nobody dares touching lest some specific software stops working? I see plenty of these in industrial environments, but also in public libraries, corporate databases, etc.

Because they just work. Nobody cares if their MRI machine runs Win2000, they care if the machine reveals brain cancer.

They care to a certain degree, and that degree is the size of the carefully-tuned payment that Trend Micro extract for the firewall product that lets the Windows 2000 MRI machine safely co-exist on the network with the hospital DC.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#336

Post by Const-me »

LeFantome wrote: post #330
Const-me wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the support depends on distros much, I think the main variable is hardware. If you have a desktop PC bought in the last ~5 years the support should be OK, for the hardware older than that the support is not guaranteed. GeForce GT 730 (launched in 2014) doesn’t support Vulkan, Intel only supports Vulkan on Windows starting from Skylake launched in 2015. Then there’re quality issues. If you search interne…

Agree overall. Just want to point out that Vulkan works on Intel Haswell. I have a 2013 MacBook Air and a 2013 Mac Pro that both have Haswell. Linux kernel 6.14 actually includes an Haswell Vulkan update from Intel themselves.

> Vulkan works on Intel Haswell

Unless you are running Windows, in which case it doesn’t. Intel simply has not made a driver.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#337

Post by quotemstr »

> In Windows, you do not make system calls directly. Instead, you dynamically link to libraries that make the system calls for you. This allows Microsoft to do all sorts of shenanigans at the kernal level while providing a stable API to userspace. This little stroke of genius allows us to have both Linux and Windows on the same machine at the same time.

Precisely correct. Linux should never have allowed system calls from outside libc or a big vdso.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#338

Post by graemep »

d3Xt3r wrote: post #191
caspper69 wrote: post #127

I have points to burn, so I'll post, because I know this will scratch some folks the wrong way- apologies in advance. I use Windows. In fact, I like Windows. I know lots of (ok, more than 5) greybeards who feel exactly the same way. I don't want Linux to be Windows, but I also don't want Linux on my personal desktop either. I have a Mac Mini M1 on my desk, and I use that for the things it's good for, mainly videoconf…

> sub-par desktop experience. I strongly disagree. Linux (KDE) is a far superior desktop experience these days, compared to Windows 11. Have you even seen the new Win11 taskbar and the shitty Start Menu - they ruined something which they perfected in Win7. The overall UX has taken a deep dive - like with the unwanted removal of classic Control Panel applets like "Window Color and Appearance" (which doesn't have a rep…

I agree. I prefer KDE to any other desktop I have tried, although i also like XFCE.

> Please don't put nVidia and AMD in the same sentence.

and in general I have not had hardware issues. You can pretty much avoid them completely by buying hardware intended for Linux.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#339

Post by mellosouls »

d3Xt3r wrote: post #191
caspper69 wrote: post #127

I have points to burn, so I'll post, because I know this will scratch some folks the wrong way- apologies in advance. I use Windows. In fact, I like Windows. I know lots of (ok, more than 5) greybeards who feel exactly the same way. I don't want Linux to be Windows, but I also don't want Linux on my personal desktop either. I have a Mac Mini M1 on my desk, and I use that for the things it's good for, mainly videoconf…

> sub-par desktop experience. I strongly disagree. Linux (KDE) is a far superior desktop experience these days, compared to Windows 11. Have you even seen the new Win11 taskbar and the shitty Start Menu - they ruined something which they perfected in Win7. The overall UX has taken a deep dive - like with the unwanted removal of classic Control Panel applets like "Window Color and Appearance" (which doesn't have a rep…

"Maybe don't use an ancient distro that's stuck in the past? Try a modern immutable distro like Aurora [3] or Bazzite [4] and see for yourself how much things have changed."

This has always been the riposte to Linux-for-normies sceptics - "you haven't tried these modern distros, X, Y, Z".

I've gone down that route several times and they always have issues, from drivers to config settings to just being too different compared to Windows or even MacOS.

Non-tech (and especially older) people will generally have expectations that obscure linux distros (despite their good intentions) cannot meet; they may well suit users who are more confident and curious with sorting things out themselves but this idea that somehow "this time its different" is ultimately on the distro-champions to prove; they've been wrong too many times in the past.

Re: Convert Linux to Windows

#340

Post by graemep »

caspper69 wrote: post #127

I have points to burn, so I'll post, because I know this will scratch some folks the wrong way- apologies in advance. I use Windows. In fact, I like Windows. I know lots of (ok, more than 5) greybeards who feel exactly the same way. I don't want Linux to be Windows, but I also don't want Linux on my personal desktop either. I have a Mac Mini M1 on my desk, and I use that for the things it's good for, mainly videoconf…

> But the most important reason? My hardware is supported. My monitors look great; printers, scanners, mice and USB drives & keys all work. In fact, >90% of the time, everything just works.

the only thing I have had issues with is one printer, and one graphics card with many machines over 20 years, so I would say I Linux manages better than 95% "just works".

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