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Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

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Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#331

Post by timewizard »

shadowgovt wrote: post #269
timewizard wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fewer than 3/4 of eligible voters voted in 2020. This is not completely true[0]. I'd also give the advice that you shouldn't take a "nationwide" average to mean much of anything. The wikipedia article shows wide variation across the states which is true for almost any statistic you can think of. > actually vote in primaries Bernie voters might give you a hint as to why. I guess this is the problem Mayor Pete's "sha…

> who should bear the responsibility Unfortunately, in a representative democracy, the people. It's right there in the Constitution, first three words.

Yea, but I'm not a signatory to the constitution, the /states/ are. Which is why the document immediately tells you it is to "form a more perfect union." The union isn't between you and I nor does it grant either of us law enforcement powers.

Then _immediately_ after you get Section 1: "All legislative powers herin granted shall be vested in a congress of the United States." Which, by the way, prior to the 17th amendment, the Senate was selected directly by the states. Then again immediately after that you get a set of limitations as to who can be admitted to this congress. You'll also note that as citizens we have absolutely no voice in the operation of this congress, the selection of it's bills, nor in the voting on them.

No, in a representative /republican/ democracy, it's the representatives that are first and foremost responsible. The most I can do is offer my input on who those people should be every 2 years, so I certainly bear some, but it's inane to suggest that the current outcome is the fault of the electorate. In particular when billions of dollars are spent every year on campaigns and advertising.

Your idea is austere and unhelpful to a broken and corrupted system. I'd like to develop a notion of jurisprudence that helps the people out of their predicament, not points the finger blamefully at them.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#332

Post by shadowgovt »

fsflover wrote: post #327
shadowgovt wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also hard to make the case that it isn't, ultimately, what the people want, by "the standard you walk past is the standard you accept" principle. It's been nearly twenty years. If Americans were deeply, deeply bothered by the government spying on them, they'd have burned down this government by now. At most charitable, this speaks to a deep ignorance or apathy in the American electorate and American citizenship.…

> deep ignorance or apathy in the American electorate Which party is against spying? The only possible action is probably protesting. This doesn't work well, e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_and_the_Occupy... . And spying is used against the protestors, too: https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/spying-occupy .

> Which party is against spying?

The one that hasn't formed yet because the electorate has failed to recognize that parties only exist because they can consolidate mass political power. This is part of the "apathy" category. People don't care enough to meet up on this issue. They don't even care enough to be members of the existing parties or do more than show up to elections (and then, only between half and three-quarters for President, less for Congress, and hovering around 10-20% for primaries).

People care, but not enough to overcome institutional inertia.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#333

Post by godshatter »

seanw444 wrote: post #312
kortilla wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unmarked vans drive around all of the time and nobody bats an eye at them. There is no reason to even bother with a big elaborate company name that anyone could google and do further background checks on

Unmarked vans drive around all the time. They don't typically park out front of a whistleblower's house. There is more scrutiny there than driving down any random street. Therefore, a more sufficient cover would be required.

An unmarked white van (without windows) parked a house or two down the street hacking your wifi might not be that noticeable. One across the street with a radio dish spinning around and a parabolic mic sticking out the window and a few people entering and exiting it with donuts and coffee multiple times probably would be.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#334

Post by shadowgovt »

timewizard wrote: post #331
shadowgovt wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who should bear the responsibility Unfortunately, in a representative democracy, the people. It's right there in the Constitution, first three words.

Yea, but I'm not a signatory to the constitution, the /states/ are. Which is why the document immediately tells you it is to "form a more perfect union." The union isn't between you and I nor does it grant either of us law enforcement powers. Then _immediately_ after you get Section 1: "All legislative powers herin granted shall be vested in a congress of the United States." Which, by the way, prior to the 17th amend…

You are right that Congress are the immediate legislative agents, but the Congressional responsibility is back-stopped by the people, because ultimately (with the exception of impeachment and removal from office, which is asking the legislature to police itself) only the people can decide to stop supporting them. And you're right about the 17th Amendment, but that's in the past; modern American voters have more power to choose their representatives than they have in most of American history, and they do not exercise it.

I don't know who else's fault it can be but the electorate when they saw how the current President operates and re-elected him. To say nothing of re-electing the same Congress over and over despite that body having a sub-30% approval rating.

... and if the people don't hold the responsibility, what would you recommend the people do? I'm not sure what "a notion of jurisprudence" means in this context: are you suggesting replacing he power-at-a-distance of an unpopular legislature with rule by nine unelected life-appointed officials and their underlings?

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#335

Post by tptacek »

echoangle wrote: post #291
eduction wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think they were being serious. In the sense that it’s cool that there’s always someone with personal experience chiming in here.

Yes, I think it's absolutely wild that there's a story here about someone spotting a suspicious sewer cleaning van and somebody who had personal experience writing code for that sewer cleaning van chimed in. Seriously, how do you not love this site?

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#336

Post by Velofellow »

adastra22 wrote: post #73
lukan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not jump to conclusions so soon. A) I would question why they would do the effort of still doing surveillance on him B) if they do, they are usually so smart to keep the door closed C) like others have mentioned, sewer cleaning comes with a lot of tech (I assume remote controlled machines)

One thing for certain: that is absolutely NOT a sewer inspection van. Seriously, you ever worked trades? It is way too clean on the interior and not fitted for working dirty jobs, to say nothing of the visible surveillance workstation.

yes, and that looks pretty much just like some of the vans I've been in the back of for CCTV sewer inspections.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#338

Post by basisword »

kleiba wrote: post #230

This is the sentence I was looking for: > While we were able to use his evidence to make some change, both EFF and Mark were ultimately let down by Congress and the Courts, which have refused to take the steps necessary to end the mass spying even after Edward Snowden provided even more evidence of it in 2013. Do you have to be a cynic to pretty much have expected this?

How close are we to “bypassing” a lot of this spying when some of the most popular communications platforms (e.g. WhatsApp) are end to end encrypted? Will the tech eventually solve the problem in a convenient way, at least for those who care?

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#339

Post by mulmen »

shadowgovt wrote: post #223
sethaurus wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for being obtuse, but what exactly are you claiming here? Are election results being faked?

They aren't. Fewer than 3/4 of eligible voters voted in 2020. In general, somewhere around 10% to a third of eligible voters actually vote in primaries, which are the elections that actually have the most impact on office holding. Nobody needs to fake election results when Americans just don't show up to vote. It's a disquietingly under-informed and apathetic electorate.

> It's a disquietingly under-informed and apathetic electorate.

The United States has elevated voter suppression to an art form. Last minute polling relocations, inadequate polling locations, unreasonable ID requirements, unreasonable registration requirements, “accidental” voter roll purges. It’s not easy to vote here. And it’s especially hard if you are in a group the incumbents don’t like.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965.

If those in power cared about our opinions it would be a national holiday and we’d vote by mail.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#340

Post by kelipso »

basisword wrote: post #338
kleiba wrote: post #230

This is the sentence I was looking for: > While we were able to use his evidence to make some change, both EFF and Mark were ultimately let down by Congress and the Courts, which have refused to take the steps necessary to end the mass spying even after Edward Snowden provided even more evidence of it in 2013. Do you have to be a cynic to pretty much have expected this?

How close are we to “bypassing” a lot of this spying when some of the most popular communications platforms (e.g. WhatsApp) are end to end encrypted? Will the tech eventually solve the problem in a convenient way, at least for those who care?

Really, the likelihood of all of them having backdoors is almost 100%.
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