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What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#331

Post by Gabriel54 »

chasing wrote: post #299
Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

Unethical race-based preferences is what those policies have been trying to fix. Not sure you’re aware of this, but academia used to be basically off-limits to anyone not white and male.

> Unethical race-based preferences is what those policies have been trying to fix.

I understand that that is the stated intention. I also believe they are racist and discriminatory.

> Not sure you’re aware of this, but academia used to be basically off-limits to anyone not white and male.

I also understand this. And now it is not. What is the point here?

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#332

Post by defrost »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #330
avs733 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have written a version of this twice and deleted but just can't let this statement stand unopposed. This is, almost inherently at this point, a rant and my last contribution to this thread. This simply is not the case, I know it is something that you and many others believe is that case but you are being lied to by actual racists. I say that as a white man working in STEM academia. Academia had a long history and t…

> You think that [it] is based on giving some preference, but it isn't - its based on acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice. I would like to understand your point here. I agree with you that the stated justification for DEI policies is based on "acknowledging and working to eliminate actual prejudice". I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So wh…

You ask:

> I also believe that they explicitly give preference to certain groups of people over others. So what is the point here?

You give the example of the journalism, geography, and ethnic studies departments specifically seeking minority viewpoints.

FWiW I don't think the DEI corporate and other programs in the USofA have been particularly well executed, they appear (from afar) to be more performative than substantive, however ...

The three examples you gave should more or less answer your own question for you.

Journalism, good reporting, brings deep informed insights from the ground. That's not going to happen when reporting on foreign countries and disadvantaged communities if all the reporters are (say) from a WASP background and perspective.

Geography isn't just maps, there are strong elements of people's relations with land that are part of that domain .. again a breadth of viewpoints gives richer coverage.

Ethnic studies. .. I mean does this really need a comment as to why diverse viewpoints deliver broader outcomes?

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#333

Post by Vilian »

scarab92 wrote: post #159
username223 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada, the EU, Australia, ... Places with solid research institutions and less-dysfunctional governments.

CA, AU, and some EU countries are about to elect conservative governments

Conservative there are a lot more closer to US democrat than republican, so that's not a problem

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#334

Post by Gabriel54 »

tomlockwood wrote: post #145
Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

Do you have any verifiable numbers to back up the impact?

> ...Faculty Diversity Action Plan, a special funding program for diversity-focused faculty hiring, which ran until 2023, when it was restructured and renamed. Created in 2020, the program played a significant role in dictating whom the university hired. In a 2022 faculty meeting, the dean of the College of Arts and Sciences was asked how many professors were hired through the program since it began. He estimated that around 90% were either hired through the program or were spousal hires.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/opinion/how-dei-conquered-the-university...

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#335

Post by Gabriel54 »

relaxing wrote: post #277
Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

[flagged]

I'm not happy with what is going on, to be clear. But I am also not surprised that it is happening, and furthermore I don't believe there was any other alternative to this scorched earth war against DEI. If one had any reservations against DEI before, one would speak only in whispers. Now the backlash is here.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#336

Post by Vilian »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #161

I support scientific research of course but to play devils advocate, how can the USA afford this? They run a deficit and have an enormous debt. I dont understand how this can continously be ignored. Of course nobody wants cuts but how can it go on? Same with the foreign aid, isnt that something a country running a surplus should be worried about?

A drop compared to military spending, thing that no one of that people cares about

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#337

Post by robocat »

amelius wrote: post #89
ggm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe some will move for lifestyle reasons, but the problem is the post war IPO landscape (post 1980s really) across biotech and ICT has made one stark barrier: USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. You have to be socially smart enough to see that a $100k salary and lifesty…

> USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway.

> That's a kind of lottery-mentality

You're the one incorrectly using the concept of gambling replying talking to someone taking about risk versus reward (investing).

It is hard for somebody who believes in gambling to win at investing.

The US has both monetary and social incentives to create new businesses. I live in NZ where founders are discouraged by financial incentives and by social incentives.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#338

Post by hooverd »

scarab92 wrote: post #244
caycep wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the irony of Andreesen now being one of those now gloating over its destruction

I don’t think that is a fair characterisation of Andreessen. He’s always been a Democrat, including supporting Obama and Clinton. His recent support of Trump appears to be a tactical reaction to some of the misbehaviour during the Biden administration such as debanking political rivals and encouraging race-based hiring.

He is a legit Moldbug techno-fascism believer now.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#339

Post by Gabriel54 »

avs733 wrote: post #315
Gabriel54 wrote: post #141

Despite all the hyperbole in this thread I will try to speak plainly. It has become tiring to see how DEI has affected all aspects of academia. Hiring people based on race, awarding grants to work exclusively with members of a particular set of minorities, etc. I'm sure most people choose to close their eyes to such things and move on and focus on the actual important work but there must be unimaginable waste going o…

I have written a version of this twice and deleted but just can't let this statement stand unopposed. This is, almost inherently at this point, a rant and my last contribution to this thread. This simply is not the case, I know it is something that you and many others believe is that case but you are being lied to by actual racists. I say that as a white man working in STEM academia. Academia had a long history and t…

> The nonsense narrative that is being pushed is, without concern for the truth, entirely grounded in the assertion that certain groups are unqualified to do intellectual work (c.f.[3]).

Also, I would like to say, I agree with you! Such a sentiment is deplorable and must be condemned. However, it does not follow that academic departments should use race or sexuality or gender as a factor when hiring professors.

In fact, when you are hiring professors on the tenure track, I am sure the first ten or even twenty professors (at least!) are all eminently qualified. Of course, there is a degree of randomness in any selection process. But as the sources in my sibling comment suggest, DEI factors are being used explicitly to distinguish and rank people. That I believe is unacceptable.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#340

Post by caycep »

hinkley wrote: post #214
caycep wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the irony of Andreesen now being one of those now gloating over its destruction

Is he really? Where? I'm no Eric Bina but I ate from the same table and would be happy to remind him of the petulant brat reputation he left behind in the halls of NCSA.

start w/ his twitter feed (@pmarca)...
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