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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#331

Post by radpanda »

sterlind wrote: post #295
nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

it's been an exhausting couple of weeks for me, as a trans person. one executive order after another, explicitly attacking us. scrambling to update all my documents, navigating a Kafkaesque bureaucracy with constantly shifting rules. now this. there are like six Zizians. there are millions of trans people. I'm sure that many of the Zizians being trans says something about the Ziz cult, but Ziz doesn't say anything ab…

I’m not a big George W Bush fan but this quote of his has stuck with me for years:

> Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#332

Post by miltonlost »

positus wrote: post #282
watwut wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also openly hated by general society and targeted for bullying by major political actors.

Most people don't hate trans people, they just think they believe things that do not correspond to biological reality; ie. they have an illness that is negatively affecting their mind and they need compassion and help. Those same people want to minimize social exposure to provably contagious, harmful, and absurd ideas like gender fluidity.

[flagged]

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#333

Post by miltonlost »

nkurz wrote: post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

[flagged]

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#334

Post by llm_trw »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #268
EA-3167 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's so much pushing an agenda, as it is avoiding a thermonuclear hot potato of modern life. If you start talking about gender identity, everyone has STRONG opinions they feel they must share. Worse, a subset of those opinions will be fairly extreme, and you're potentially exposing yourself to harassment or worse. If you sound like you're attacking trans people, that's going to end badly. If you sound l…

No, that is omitting quite a significant detail. If apparently the majority of people have X characteristic that is a tiny percentage in the overall population there is some correlation or something newsworthy there,

To quote a hot potato of a previous age: all bankers may be Jews, but not all Jews are bankers.

We know where that one took us.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#335

Post by butter999 »

jimrandomh wrote: post #330

The HN title added the word "rationalist", which isn't in the source article. This is editorializing in a way that feels kind of slander-y. Their relationship to the bay area rationalist community is that we kicked them out long before any of this started.

It does appear in the article.

> The group is a radical offshoot of the Rationalism movement, focusing on matters such as veganism and artificial intelligence destroying humanity.

You yourself seem to acknowledge this as a fact.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#336

Post by dcrazy »

abecedarius wrote: post #315
dcrazy wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also inserted “rationalist” into my submission of this story because it’s an accurate description of the group.

HN guidelines: "Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." Perhaps you would also describe the Manson family as a Christian death cult.

Probably not the Manson family, but probably the Branch Dividians. Just like I’d call the Salvation Army a Christian paramilitary.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#337

Post by __turbobrew__ »

concordDance wrote: post #306
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. Sometimes the beliefs are that certain crimes should be committed. This is a free country (disputably) and you should be able to think and say whatever you want, but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement.

> It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. There are hundreds of thousands of rationalists (to a greater or lesser extent). Very few go shoot people.

I didn’t say “rationalist” should be investigated, I said “zizian” which is a small personality cult of ziz.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#338

Post by Muromec »

pembrook wrote: post #125

What I find interesting about these cases and the seemingly unrelated United Healthcare CEO assassination is that all were committed by extremely online data scientists who went to elite universities. I’ve been fairly skeptical of the right wing narrative that these schools have been “radicalized” (seeing as universities and young people have always been the hotbeds of leftist thought, how soon we forget the hippie m…

>Also, why is data science a common thread?

People on the spectrum as susceptible to mind-viruses and enjoy grand ideas. At least two of them it seems.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#339

Post by llm_trw »

scarmig wrote: post #205
Aurornis wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weird to see a community I followed show up so close to home and negatively like this. I had some coworkers who were really into LessWrong and rationality. I thought it was fun to read some of the selected writings they would share, but I always felt that online rationalist communities collected a lot of people with reactionary, fascist, misogynistic, and far-right tendencies. There’s a heavily sanitized version of…

It's somewhat odd to represent a community as being right wing when the worst thing to come from it was a trans vegan murder cult. Most "rationalists" vote Democrat, and if the franchise were limited to them, Harris would have won in a 50 state landslide. The complaint here seems to be that rationalists don't take progressive pieties as axiomatic.

>The complaint here seems to be that rationalists don't take progressive pieties as axiomatic.

A trans vegan gang murdering police officers is what's come out of this milieu.

I don't see how anyone can say they aren't taking "progressive pieties as axiomatic".

The OP is just taking the "everything I don't like is fascist" trope to it's natural conclusion. Up next: Stalin actually a Nazi.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#340

Post by [deleted] »

anon84873628 wrote: post #308
sam345 wrote: post #194

Doesn't sound rationalist to me (from Ziz quoted section of article linked below): "Ziz Impostors keep thinking it's safe to impersonate single goods. A nice place to slide in psyche/shadow, false faces, "who could ever falsify that I'm blaming it on my headmate!" Saying you're single good is saying, "Help, I have a Yeerk in my head that's a mirror image of me. I need you to surgically destroy it, even if I'm then cr…

what the heck does any of this mean??

[deleted]
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