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Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

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Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#331

Post by lizknope »

I've been here for a long time and I didn't even know that this site was for startups until a few years ago.

I wonder how old the author is. I started working in 1997 at the height of the dot com boom. I knew people at multiple startups that got bought. People that were millionaires at age 25-30. I would get about 5 phone calls a week on my office phone from recruiters thinking I should leave.

In 2001 I saw all the layoffs and we had a reorg. The job and coworkers I loved turned into something I hated. No recruiters, no openings, it took me 10 months to find something new.

Since then I tried 2 startups and both were failures. In the first I don't regret it as my old job was not great. At the second I know that I made a mistake both professionally and financially. That was 5 years ago and if a recruiter contacts me for a startup I don't even reply. Not interested at all in the chaos and failed promises that was my startup experiences.

Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#332

Post by compiler-guy »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #103
KaiserPro wrote: post #17

I think the bigger issue is that most of the financial upsides of startups were illusory Unless you're a founder, you're unlikely to make any money, and predatory VC/backers using convertibles/senior debt to turn your equity into Zimbabwean dollars. Thats before any stats are calculated for lasting long enough to either IPO, make money or get bought out. As someone who did successfully exit, the stories of multiple-m…

I've had one successful exit as an engineer. Made enough for a (very) fancy dinner for two, or a short city break. Just a fun bit of pocket money, essentially. Founders made more than I'll probably earn in a lifetime.

During the dotcom bubble, me and my buddies often said, "We could be thousandaires!"

Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#333

Post by gnkyfrg »

taylodl wrote: post #189
ragnot wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll find that outside the startup, the director/vp/cto title doesn't translate. Larger companies will often write you off as being "not experienced" enough which is often code for "you don't look old enough for this position". Unlike engineering and the startup world, big companies want you to look the part not just know the part.

The corporate world is simply a different environment with a different set of rules and a different set of engagements and thus requiring a different set of skills. A director or VP at a startup and a director or VP at a Fortune 500 company are two totally different things.

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Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#334

Post by gnkyfrg »

s_dev wrote: post #247
Draiken wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at that point, does it fit a startup definition? In my view, startups always involve rapid growth and VC money to achieve it. If the company doesn't meet that criteria, isn't that simply a regular business?

I agree however it's the 'Paul Graham' definition. i.e. a trade off must be maintained between the bottom line and growth and a startup is a business that prioritises growth over basic financial sustainability. I've seen economists argue the opposite saying a startup is no different to a regular business. It depends on which definition you wish to subscribe to.

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Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#335

Post by godelski » 

  > The low-hanging fruit of the mobile/web era has largely been picked, making truly innovative opportunities harder to find.
I'd like to add a point here.

There's still lots of low hanging fruit. But so much of this is hard to implement in a way that won't be immediately replicated by a major player. So good luck displacing them.

Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#336

Post by auggierose »

nico wrote: post #273
blindriver wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the ~15th engineer at a YC startup that had a very big exit. Over 4 years I made less than $80k total (20k/yr) from my options while the founders made high 8 figures. Had I joined BigTech I would have made over $1 M just from stock and I would have worked less. Back during the dot com days, everyone from the secretaries to the chefs to the founders were getting rich but nowadays YC teaches their founders to kee…

We were rejected from YC because we wouldn’t dilute to 0 some of the early people at the company They first told us we were in, but that we would need to adjust our cap table so that only 2 founders would have equity. They gave us a phone call, we pushed back, and later they sent us a rejection email

Interesting. Why would they care about something like that? Would it not just come out of the pockets of the 2 founders?

Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#337

Post by [deleted] »

rUsHeYaFuBu wrote: post #85
tossandthrow wrote: post #5

IMHO building startup became a status symbol which means that the payment in respect for making a courageous adventure is lost and commoditized. We are slowly seeing the same for academia. Point 2 resonates with me. Risk adjusted it is very unlikely that one will make a reasonable salary doing startups. So it is conviction and heart that needs to drive it. For me, the main issue is that every time I voice the idea ab…

> entire sector is short sighted and profit obsessed If you're in for-profit sector, I don't see why being concerned with the main goal first and foremost would be a bad thing. No one's doing business or lending money to not see a return on that. So if the problem is worth solving in this ecosystem it's worth it because it does actually turn a profit instead of some fantasy that it will magically appear at some imagi…

[deleted]

Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#338

Post by gnkyfrg »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #125
yason wrote: post #43

I'd say starting a company to make something people want in order to sell it for money is still relevant. It's just that you're looking at working quietly, humbly, but perseverantly for the next 25 years, slowly growing the business and balancing the risks and opportunities along the way. You won't be looking for an "exit" because you want to take care of the company you built. That's a very different story from what…

> you're looking at working quietly, humbly, but perseverantly for the next 25 years > That never was sustainable, I think Another aspect with this being (un)sustainable is lack of affordable healthcare. I bet many people would take more risks if they didn't have to worry about this aspect of their lives.

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Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#339

Post by Tcepsa »

Analemma_ wrote: post #311
dsugarman wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is so negative, cynical, and bitter on HN now, it's really sad to me. I went through YC in 2012 and I feel like the community here is unrecognizable, the quality of discourse is so low it feels hard to participate.

I can understand complaining about cynicism, but it's dishonest to pretend it's not coming from a real place. All the complaints people are voicing elsewhere in this thread are true: - it's true that you will get jack squat if you're employee #4 or later (and in the process you'll work more hours with less job security than at a FAANG) - it's true that the startup scene has delivered basically nothing of real value t…

Thank you for collecting these here--it's been very heartening for me to see that I'm not the only one around here that sees these kinds of things and finds it difficult to maintain a positive outlook. I appreciate that there are still folks on HN willing to point out stuff like this.

Re: Startup Winter: Hacker News Lost Its Faith

#340

Post by [deleted] »

itake wrote: post #107
aqme28 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was the second engineer (series A) at a company that IPO’d at a unicorn valuation. By all rights that’s a great outcome. I made about as much in that exit as I would have if I were just at a FAANG instead

This tracks. I think the real value employees get is riding the rocketship in their career. Early engineers often have first dibs on higher level roles, like CTO or director over people that join late. Your initial grant might not be great, but being director at such a company is huge

[deleted]
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