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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

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331–340 of 653 posts

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#331

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

NY is probably the only city where this could work because it’s the only proper American city that has a real metro system. Every other city will require major upgrades to have modern public transportation, and the density isn’t there in most American cities that were designed around the car.

Please explain proper for us used to bart/muni/caltrain.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NY is probably the only city where this could work because it’s the only proper American city that has a real metro system. Every other city will require major upgrades to have modern public transportation, and the density isn’t there in most American cities that were designed around the car.

Please explain proper for us used to bart/muni/caltrain.

NYC Subway, Metro North, and LIRR have much broader and more frequent coverage to a lot more places outside the urban core than the bay area's network does. Iirc muni metro has passable coverage inside San Francisco, and Bart and Caltrain service a few linear corridors outside San Francisco pretty well, but a whole lot of the bay area is very far from transit. This means that bay area commuters could not as easily switch away from cars. Though SF is still probably the second best candidate for congestion pricing after NYC.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#333

Will companies compensate workers for having to pay congestion pricing just to get to work??

Why? Do they pay you back for living two hours away, or driving an expensive gas guzzler that gets 5 mpg?

In a way, yes since a local employee will get higher salary than a remote worker. It could cost some people $40 a day just to get into and out of work. What will happen if you don’t compensate is people come to the office late and leave early to avoid the pricing, resulting in a loss of productivity.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#334

I wish people would focus more on scooters and motorcycles than moving people in busses. Coming from a place with decent and cheap public transport, no one likes it. It'll never be as fast, you'll always be closed in a bacteria greenhouse with strangers, there will always be crazies, it'll never have the exact path you need, you don't have as much control over it.. For the past year I've been commuting on a motorcycl…

You're way overplaying the dangers of "crazies" and "the bacteria greenhouse" with respect to travel by motorcycle or scooter (or even automobile). I agree with your point that we should encourage these modes of transportation over cars, but I'd add it will be electric bikes that finally turn the tide on traffic congestion in cities (and all the other great benefits that come with doing that). Just don't tell the ele…

I mean, I'm definitely biased but I've been sick once since ~2015 and that was Covid I caught at a large anniversary celebration. Before that I was With crazies it's not that bad. I remember the bus getting pulled over once by a car with people with pipes/bats who beat a grandpa for getting in an argument with one of the guys prior. That was the only actually violent occurance over thousands of rides, however I still have yet to feel as threatened with a personal vehicle. With a car I could have rammed the fuck out of them or ran them over, with a bike I could have been gone in a second, when the bus driver stops and opens the front door you're just stuck. Again, realistically it's mostly crazy homeless people who pose no threat but I prefer to have some control at least.

My issue with electric bicycles is:

If limited they don't fit with pedestrians or cars so you need to complicate infrastructure. Good for going to the post office but not as a daily since they're just not fast enough. Lovely for old people and to an extent kids.

If not limited they are less tested motorcycles with usually shitty tires and brakes, no ABS, TC, etc with pedals to fulful some potentially existing legal loophole since there's no way you're doing anything close to the motor output manually yet since you feel inclined to pedal gear becomes problematic.

I still have yet to try an electric motorcycle but I'd guess the little electric scooters would be great for commuting. I'm guessing an electric scooter that can do 100-140kmh would be the utility sweet spot. You'd be able to go everywhere and charge for pennies with minimal maintenance. You'd also get the scooter benefits of improved road muck/weather protection and actual underseat storage.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#335

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

Arlington, VA has had this for years. The I-66 10-mile segment to DC is dynamic pricing with no limit. I've seen it over $40. And they can pick and choose who it applies to. That was in part due to a lawsuit. The federal and state governments made hollow promises to Arlington to get I-66 built, then did little about the resulting traffic mess and noise for decades.

"The issue arises from a 1977 agreement between then-U.S. Secretary of Transportation William T. Coleman Jr. and the state of Virginia. In the so-called Coleman Decision, Arlington agreed to drop its opposition to the construction of I-66 in exchange for certain promises, including a four-lane limit, sound barriers, and truck and car-pool restrictions."

https://www.arlingtontransportationpartners.com/services/i-6...

https://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/i-66-construction-protests...

A Long Road Bitter Fight Against I-66 Now History https://archive.is/oo06a

Arlington Board United In Opposing Wider I-66 https://archive.is/NMhbH

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#336
post #3

Note that it was snowy in NYC today, so people were likely dissuaded to drive by other factors than congestion pricing as well. It'll be interesting to see what impact there is as we get further along in the year. The dashboard is based off of Google Maps travel time data which I'm unsure of the exact accuracy. I imagine the city might also have other more direct metrics that can be used, such as the count of vehicle…

Snowy? That was a light dusting that I cleaned up with a broom.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#337

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

NY is probably the only city where this could work because it’s the only proper American city that has a real metro system. Every other city will require major upgrades to have modern public transportation, and the density isn’t there in most American cities that were designed around the car.

Chicago and DC? Their ridership numbers aren’t trivial

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_...

I live in Boston and I could see it working here, now that the T is on a path to reliability.

While it would be great if money wasn’t a concern, you don’t need to plaster the city in a grid of metro lines. Careful usage of bus only lanes has really made a difference in some areas of Boston that I frequent.

Edit: The link above is only for heavy rail - Boston’s numbers are better if you also include light rail, which is a significant part of the system:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_light_...

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Do they pay you back for living two hours away, or driving an expensive gas guzzler that gets 5 mpg?

In a way, yes since a local employee will get higher salary than a remote worker. It could cost some people $40 a day just to get into and out of work. What will happen if you don’t compensate is people come to the office late and leave early to avoid the pricing, resulting in a loss of productivity.

> In a way, yes since a local employee will get higher salary than a remote worker.

But you're asking for the local employees to have their entirely variable commute costs covered. That's very different. If I want to helicopter to work for $2k a day, should work cover it? If not, why is wanting to drive in a city with robust public transit options any different?

People leaving work early is a fixable discipline issue.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top speed (mostly) comes from the tracks, not the method of motive power. As it stands they're already maxing out and exceeding (when they're late) the max speed for the class of rail they have. Some of the inner stops might get a few seconds faster with better acceleration but that's about it. The grade crossings are also kinda f'd. At full speed you can be in the middle of the train and see the arms still be in the…

Top speed, sure, but for typical commuter heavy-rail, a non-express train isn't running at top speed for all that long. Diesel-electric trains take a LOT longer to accelerate compared to a modern EMU, so much so that Caltrain's electrification project shaved 23 minutes off the SF to San Jose local trip, from 100 to 77 minutes. Videos [0] [1] make the acceleration improvement pretty clear. [0] https://x.com/Caltrain/s…

The MBTA already runs top speed on most of its lines once you get outside of roughly I95 depending on the line. Getting there faster would help but I don't think it would shave as much time off the end to end trip as you think. And for the urban stops they already accelerate and brake at the limit of what is reasonable for standing passengers. They can't push it too much or an old lady is gonna bounce off a wall and get a nose bleed and that's a bad look. It's not like Acela where a ticket guarantees a seat.

There will definitely be some improvement from electrification but I don't think it will affect median travel times much and the affect on average will mostly be from reliability.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF put in 33 speed cameras in known locations, and are aiming to install 900 more by the end of this year. As a bonus to speeders, speeds in excess of 100 mph will incur a $500 speeding ticket, though that may have unintended consequences.

what unintended consequences?

Nothing special. Slight increases in minor accidents and near misses, some minority of which will involve pedestrians or road rage violence Basically the same downsides as anything else that changes the speed via rule or enforcement rather than changing the conditions of the road (e.g. "traffic calming").
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