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The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

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Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then you just sit on the unencrypted pci bus and sniff the interesting stuff out of it (e.g. display lists) already some hacks doing this

Anti-cheats are already detecting DMA devices like this.

this doesn't require DMA, just pcie sniffing/proxing

I don't see how you can detect it if it's done properly

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern dedicated cameras have far more dynamic range than any HDR TV in practice. The movies have to be recorded somehow :)

> The movies have to be recorded somehow :) I'd imagine they do this via huge (non-consumer level) cameras as well as by professional editors and graders who spend countless hours on the process. But that doesn't really contradict your point. I don't know. I've never seen a good screen recording but I don't download pirated films so perhaps I've never seen an instance of someone really trying to get it right.

My A7C II ($2000-class mirrorless) has a sensor with far more range than any monitor I've ever been able to afford.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#333
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants a preboot password though. TPM means the system can boot and then do face login or whatever using the user's password in exactly one place. This is as much as most users will tolerate. And it also means Microsoft account recovery can work to unlock a forgotten password. The whole point is Microsoft don't want user devices to ever be trivially bypassed, regardless of how unlikely that is (probably more li…

"No one wants a preboot password though" - really? Doesn't strike me as particularly inconvenient, especially given the relative rarity of actual bootups these days. I've been using bog-standard FDE for as long as I can remember. One extra password entry per bootup for almost-perfect security seems like great value to me.

The more inexpensive option of the newer Trezor wallets and "login PIN" as an optional alternative to a password that also works, seems to be the best option (that I have seen so far).

The more recently released Trezor wallets are still new, and Yubikey 5C will probably be used in many places anyway just because of the keyring and no need for the usb-c cable.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has already been shown with videogame DRM like Denuvo. No it hasn’t. > Everytime a new game comes out that it’s usable done in under 24 hours This is not even remotely true and is not based in any kind of reality.

Back in the day when piracy was quite literally just copy and paste it was a very active scene. But cracking Denuvo takes real skill- and there's no financial reward in it. Back in the 90s bootleg DVDs and CD-ROMs had organised crime making money from it.

Exactly.

Cracking Denuvo as a hobby is not something a sane person would do, and the downsides if caught are higher when one is fully employed.

At least to me, a decade has passed since I left college and had spare time and energy to tackle such projects just for cred.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#335
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring TPM can actually benefit multiplayer video games because it introduces a secure way to identify hardware being used by cheaters. Right now everything being used by games is easily spoofed by cheats so cheaters just need to get a new account to continue cheating after being banned.

Anti-cheat is a lousy cover for something that's going to be much more lucrative when used to correlate the accounts of journalists and whistleblowers such that they can be silenced. It's censorship tech.

This here is a stronger motivator than any other motivator mentioned in all other comments posted. And "journalist" will include anyone who has the "wrong" memes on their machine.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably advantage of DRM is that circumvention can be criminalized and absence of DRM implies circumvention.

What advantage does this have over just criminalizing the underlying infringement regardless of DRM? Also, how does criminalizing it actually help anything, since the difficulty is in the scale of it happening and the difficulty of detecting it rather than the severity of the penalties, and imposing draconian penalties on random kids only turns the public against you?

I think it plays differently before a jury. Juries can easily understand copying files and could potentially invalidate. But it's different when lawyers get to move the conversation to scary hacker garble about technical skill and intent. Evidence of intent is the real value.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#337

The author is correct in that media DRM is tied to GPU vendors on the field right now. But hardware backed DRM can be so much more invasive beyond that. I have no doubts the long term goal of MS is to have a Windows version of Play Integrity.[0] So total control over everything that happens on your device. Just to give an example of what could happen if this becomes reality: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Enviro…

> the future for personal computing is looking grim I don't know. They could lock up the hardware stack as much as they want, in the end it's pixels being pushed to arrays. It's extremely hard to prevent these pixels from being intercepted. You'll have pirate groups just going deep in the hardware (opening the monitors and soldering and hacking and whatnots) and eventually tap these. As for personal usage: I've got h…

We're not concerned about DRM because it will (or won't) stop us from redistributing and playing content. The stated goal of DRM (blocking copyright infringement), and DRM's general failure to meet that goal, is the least interesting part of the story.

We're concerned about DRM because what it does accomplish. DRM creates a vertically-integrated market wherein every layer of the stack is authoritatively controlled by a colluding oligopoly of vertically integrated hardware+media corporations (Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Comcast, etc.)

The greatest problem with DRM is drivers. NVIDIA hardware only works well in Linux because it's important to NVIDIA's business. Even so, there are longstanding issues that would have been fixed decades ago if kernel devs were allowed to collaborate. Instead, DRM (and copyright in general) demands that the driver dev team be siloed away from the kernel devs. This way, NVIDIA can use the exclusivity of its CUDA implementation as an anticompetitive advantage in its hardware business.

Copyright is, fundamentally, a wall between would-be collaborators. DRM is an implementation of that wall, but instead of isolating people, it isolates software. The wall DRM provides is not used to monopolize the distribution of content: it is used to construct moats in our software ecosystem.

There's a reason I prefer the experience of torrenting a Netflix rip over streaming Netflix on my Roku: the entire hardware+software stack is superior. I can actually sort and navigate my library. I can decode&render with my faster GPU. I can adjust the audio delay. I can adjust subtitle placement & font. I can mix the audio so that dialogue is actually audible. I can do frame interpolation with SVP (again using a better GPU than whatever your "smart" TV has onboard). I can seek forward&backward quickly without changing bitrate. I can let the credits play without being interrupted by an ad. The list goes on...

I don't want a goddamn CRT. I want modern hardware. The more we let corporations abuse us with DRM, the less compatible that hardware will be with real software.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Active player counts: Minecraft: ~185,000,000 World of Warcraft: ~7,250,000 Dragons Dogma 2: ~4000 This seems more along the lines of nobody bothers to crack games nobody wants to play.

there's only one person releasing cracks for modern denuvo and their last release was a year ago, and they're crazy

Apparently the people doing this kind of work have been disproportionately in Eastern Europe and what's going on in Ukraine has so disrupted that part of the world that they currently have bigger problems.

So then you're waiting for either that region to stabilize or demand for cracks to cause people somewhere else to get into the game, and in the interim you effectively have a temporary supply chain issue.

But it's hard to give credit for the ravages of war to the DRM pushers and it's not at all obvious that they've secured any kind of permanent advantage.

Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't actually understand what a TPM does. My vague and probably incorrect impression is that it performs some sort of encrypted verification of firmware or hardware modules? Can anyone expand on what this does? My impression would be that this is not useful for most users, and would be much of a concern in industrial espionage situations. I have no confidence that I'm correct here.

The simplest and most obvious use-case is allowing you to encrypt your hard drive using a key stored in tamper-resistant hardware rather than having to rely on the user to select a passphrase complex enough to resist offline brute force attacks.

Oh, that's interesting. So in the TPM case, I could not have a password to have an encrypted volume? And if I removed that hard drive from the computer, there would be no way to recover it? But from the user's perspective, it would be transparent and they might not even know it's encrypted?
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