Live data from Hacker News

California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

latimes.com

331–340 of 553 posts

Re: California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

#331

> But others said the admissions exam and additional application requirements are inherently unfair to students of color who face socioeconomic disadvantages. Elaine Waldman, whose daughter is enrolled in Reed’s IHP, said the test is “elitist and exclusionary,” and hoped dropping it would improve the diversity of the program. Recognizing gifted students is inherently discriminatory. Because these are the numbers: Ave…

Recognizing gifted students should not be just measuring IQ (which is known to be a flawed metric)

Good luck finding a metric that isn't highly correlated with IQ.

Re: California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share more details? Where have you moved to? What alternatives did you consider?

I moved to Forsyth County, GA, where my child has access to excellent computer science and musical education (not to mention AP classes and 3 tiers bases on student achievement). In fact, he didn't make it to the top tier in everything because they were just too strong. This is a good thing! In his supposedly "10" California school, music had been defunded to spread equality to other school systems; also, no career e…

Latino is widely understood to refer to people descended from the population of Latin America.

Re: California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He can’t function in a regular class because he would become bored and would act out and constantly get in trouble. No student has ever found all their courses interesting. You'd have a behavior problem no matter what level of material is taught.

[flagged]

Truly a rebuttal for the ages.

Re: California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can also learn outside of school, too. As someone who spent time in all three, I felt that my academic time was utterly wasted in public school. Sure, "learning outside" is always available, but that doesn't regain the time served in government mandated kid-prison. > In my experience all that people talk about how private and homeschooling affects your ability to socialize with normal people is true. In my expe…

> I felt that my academic time was utterly wasted in public school No it wasn't! You learned how to interact with normal people. That's a lifelong skill. > "You're so well-adjusted", is a frequent refrain. Sure, some people make it work. I don't think this invalidates the broad observation that private and homeschooled people are frequently socially... off. I myself had a homeschooled kid in our town who transitioned…

> No it wasn't! You learned how to interact with normal people. That's a lifelong skill.

It taught me the necessity of being as viciously crass as my new classmates in order to fit in. If you consider that normal, then let it be known that I'm perfectly fine sticking with abnormal people thank you very much. I am perfectly content learning the lessons of Lord of the Flies by reading, and not by getting thrown into a small re-enactment of it.

Though I suppose public middle school psychology was useful when I was an internment camp guard in southern Iraq. I'll grant you that.

> Then again, his parents also had him integrate tightly with athletics for the decade before this over precisely the concern about socialization we're discussing. Perhaps there's a critical time in development when socialization is necessary and there are other venues than public school to remediate this.

I'll add to your anecdata - most homeschoolers I knew did sports and other extracurricular clubs, outside of the co-ops they may be participating in.

Re: California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

#335

> But others said the admissions exam and additional application requirements are inherently unfair to students of color who face socioeconomic disadvantages. Elaine Waldman, whose daughter is enrolled in Reed’s IHP, said the test is “elitist and exclusionary,” and hoped dropping it would improve the diversity of the program. Recognizing gifted students is inherently discriminatory. Because these are the numbers: Ave…

You are not supposed to talk about this.

You're not supposed to talk about it because the people who talk about it don't want to talk about slavery and Jim Crow. There were laws prescribing the death penalty for white people caught teaching black people how to read. Slaves were released into debt peonage while their owners were paid reparations. Control things for wealth, and the wealth of relatives, and all of the statistics start to favor the descendants of slaves.

Slaves never discovered the philosopher's stone, so they never managed to turn lead into gold, but since nobody cared about entertaining us, we had to entertain ourselves. How did that turn out?

IQ is an obsession of low-IQ people. Smart people understand that you can become smarter by learning rules that allow you to process the information you receive in a better way, and that this process is endless. Dumb people think that smart people are magical, and were born with special powers that you can measure by looking at them really hard.

If the race IQ people were serious, they'd be making arguments that the low-IQ races should have disproportionate interventions. Instead, they're just trying to retroactively justify the selfish brutality of their disgusting ancestors.

worthless addition: I have to mention that I got into Mensa, or else people think comments like this are sour grapes. They love speculating about people's internal states over a good argument, as much as they love a simple scalar over a complex nonlinear process.

Re: California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

#336

> But others said the admissions exam and additional application requirements are inherently unfair to students of color who face socioeconomic disadvantages. Elaine Waldman, whose daughter is enrolled in Reed’s IHP, said the test is “elitist and exclusionary,” and hoped dropping it would improve the diversity of the program. Recognizing gifted students is inherently discriminatory. Because these are the numbers: Ave…

I'd argue the parent's socioeconomic status is a much better predictor of IQ than "race".

But that never shows up in the data? Seriously, people always like to bring this idea up like it's not been studied to hell and back. Socioeconomic is not a stronger factor.

Re: California's most neglected group of students: the gifted ones

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where did you get the impression the genesis for "gifted" programs was to solve high iq problem kids? this is the first I'm hearing of that.

TFA could be your second time hearing about it: > These programs were originally meant to meet the needs of students with intense, often irregular learning patterns. They used to be seen as not needing special attention because they often excelled. As standardized testing required schools to aim for student proficiency, all the focus went to those who hadn’t met that mark. Those who exceeded it were deemed to be just…

Thanks! I did not read that as being to prevent them from dropping out or getting pregnant, or other "problem kid" behavior, just at risk for academic problems in the future. When I was in school educators framed it entirely as "living up to your potential". I see what you mean though.
Post reply on HN