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The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

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Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#331

Post by ndiddy »

dfabulich wrote: post #216
donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

"Holding kids back" is not the reason EdTech fails at scale. The problem is that people who succeed in tech are able to effectively educate themselves, alone, without a dedicated human teacher supervising them or a group of student peers. (You need this skill to succeed in tech, learning new APIs/languages from written materials and online videos.) The techies who build/fund EdTech wrongly assume that everyone could…

You're absolutely right, even in this thread there's a ton of "I was able to teach myself, so clearly everyone would be geniuses if only the system didn't hold them back" posts. It's the same thing that led to a lot of the problems with the OLPC project (check out the book "The Charisma Machine" if you're interested in that subject).

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#332

Post by hintymad »

lolinder wrote: post #78
donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

The incredibly frustrating thing about this is that this is always done in the name of "equity", but the result is that the system perpetuates the inequities that already exist. Because the public schools force kids into grade bands and don't allow children who are ahead to learn at their level, wealthy parents (and only wealthy parents) figure out ways to supplement or move their kids into schools that are appropria…

> that this is always done in the name of "equity",

I never understood the rationale behind these progressives. Don't they have kids? Don't they know even twins may perform differently in school? I have two kids. They are only 1 year apart. They can access any educational materials as they want. Even if their school teachers were not good (they are very good, by the way), the kids would have access to excellent private teachers and tutoring. Yet, one handles maths with ease and has jumped three grades without even trying, but on the other hand does not like reading or writing. The other can barely keep up and I spend enormous amount of time just to make sure he can understand the fundamentals, but on the other hand he loved reading and is creative in writing.

Equity my ass.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#333

Post by narcraft »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #248

The argument Jared makes in the body of his article ("The argument I’m making is that digital technologies so often aren’t used for learning that...") is less bold and sweeping than the one in the title ("The EdTech Revolution Has Failed"). It's true that edtech hasn't (yet) created an educational utopia, as some people may have imagined or hoped. But there are educational technology tools that my son (8yo) uses seve…

I'm an adult user of Math Academy. I have a bachelor's in Math and I'm working through the Mathematical Foundations series to brush up on material from all the lectures/assignments I skipped and fill in the cracks of my knowledge. I absolutely love it.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#334

Post by WillAdams »

walterbell wrote: post #307
WillAdams wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best school which I ever attended rigorously divided academic and social classes --- academic classes (reading/English/math/science) were attended at one's ability level, while social classes (homeroom, phys. ed., social studies) were attended at one's grade level. There was a 4 year cap up through the 8th grade (so I was a 4th grader attending 8th grade English, math and science classes), and after that, the cap…

Amazing! Any articles on that school?

Not that I've been able to find --- it would have been the school local to Columbus AFB in the late 1960s to mid 70s.

The State Supreme Court stuff is my hazy recollection of letters my parents received from other folks who were still living there when the school system was changed.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#335

Post by randomdata »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #192
samvher wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there might be some survivorship bias here, right? You teach students who made it to a top university because they thrived in the classical setup which is the most common one. Presumably your preferred teaching style aligning well with the classical approach also helped get you to that position. Personally I feel like my education/learning only really started to take off when resources like EdX and Courser…

Oh I agree 100%. Recorded lectures are a miracle for the 2x speed and buffering.

And variety of lecturers. Sometimes another person saying it changes everything.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#336

Post by nitwit005 »

lolinder wrote: post #78
donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

The incredibly frustrating thing about this is that this is always done in the name of "equity", but the result is that the system perpetuates the inequities that already exist. Because the public schools force kids into grade bands and don't allow children who are ahead to learn at their level, wealthy parents (and only wealthy parents) figure out ways to supplement or move their kids into schools that are appropria…

People were like this even before equity was much of a concern.

I think it's sort of natural for teachers to view kids that are both too behind or too ahead as "problems". In both cases, there is an indication they've failed, and no one likes that.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#337

Post by zen928 »

Yhippa wrote: post #95
basilgohar wrote: post #68

As someone who's worked in EdTech for around two decades, I know why people think this. It's what a lot people here have already said. Education is what is failing, EdTech didn't magically solve this. Just like money, you can't just throw tech at education and expect it to solve anything. There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easie…

> There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easier to manipulate, gravitate towards consumerism, and won't hold their leaders as accountable. Power generally resides with those who benefit from an ill-educated populace, so anything that would actually help educate children and people at large is discouraged. I want to believe this but…

That's because you aren't viewing it in the proper context and think that the result of the action is isolated. I can't honestly imagine that you couldn't come up with a single incentive for misinforming people on topics in such a way that would result in your own benefit.

Just curious, how would you describe the motivations of a stereotypical sleazy car salesman offering predatory loan rates: A hard working person doing what they need to do to survive, or a con artist trying to find more victims? Only one of those choices represents reality, and you should really be wary of anyone who would suggest the other choice.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#338

Post by rahimnathwani »

narcraft wrote: post #333
rahimnathwani wrote: post #248

The argument Jared makes in the body of his article ("The argument I’m making is that digital technologies so often aren’t used for learning that...") is less bold and sweeping than the one in the title ("The EdTech Revolution Has Failed"). It's true that edtech hasn't (yet) created an educational utopia, as some people may have imagined or hoped. But there are educational technology tools that my son (8yo) uses seve…

I'm an adult user of Math Academy. I have a bachelor's in Math and I'm working through the Mathematical Foundations series to brush up on material from all the lectures/assignments I skipped and fill in the cracks of my knowledge. I absolutely love it.

I used it for 2 months during spring last year (averaging over an hour per day). I have chosen not to prioritize math study for now, but I also absolutely love it.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#339

Post by cwoolfe »

zie wrote: post #288

Most student devices are older Android or iPad tablets. Sometimes they get older generation Chromebooks. They are not getting M4 laptops. Then EdTech delivers MS teams level bloatware and expects it to run? This stuff is generally absolute garbage that even at the most optimistic barely works as advertised. Lots of this stuff gets built with very little thought on how it's supposed to integrate into a classroom setti…

Not only are we paying teachers worse than we used to, we are actually spending more on education! The scandal is the addition of more useless Administrator positions. https://x.com/TCCRI/status/1760792700771533084

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#340

Post by insane_dreamer »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #313
insane_dreamer wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw that on HN recently, and it does look good, but haven't tried it yet. I might give it a try. One factor is I'm my son's math coach so I don't mind sitting down with him and books (he's 2 grades ahead). This isn't to say EdTech can't be useful, and my previous comment was perhaps a bit harsh. Khan Academy is great for drilling into specific subjects; my older child (now finished college) used it at home in HS as…

I'm not even sure it's a good classroom tool, but rather is a useful _supplement_ We may soon get to a point where, for certain subjects, edtech is the classroom tool, and the teacher/coach is the supplement. I don't mind sitting down with him and books (he's 2 grades ahead). My son is also 2 grades ahead in math. He skipped Kindergarten and now, in 3rd grade, he does math with the 4th grade class (which is currently…

> in 3rd grade, he does math with the 4th grade class (which is currently working through the Singapore Math 4A book).

Coincidentally, my son is also in 3rd grade and also on Singapore 4A book at home :) He can't do math with the 4th grade class (not really an option at our school) but does 5th grade level with the apps they use in class (DreamBox, not sure which others).

> But usually he's just been too aggressive at skipping past the explanations or worked examples in the MA lesson, and I just tell him to scroll up and read.

Again, similar situation here; so I prefer to go over the concepts with him to make sure he's grasped them. His biggest problem is reading the problems too quickly. When he slows down and takes the time to think through he figures them all out -- and that's probably my most important contribution as his "coach" -- and also where you need a live person I think. It's like with sports -- many players are skilled enough that they don't need a coach to teach them skills, but they need a coach to learn how to use those skills.

> But it's more effective for MA to be the core experience, and for me to be an on-call coach (i.e. for me to the supplement).

Fair point. I should give it a try as an alternative (always useful to have different curriculums approaching problems from different angles, especially as the concepts get harder).

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