Reflections on Palantir • Hacker News Board

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#331

Post by jiggawatts » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:06 AM UTC

kuhewa wrote: post #328

jiggawatts wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please re-read my statements, I’m choosing my words carefully. Urban conflict in general produces civilian casualties with women, men, and children dying in proportions matching the demographics. In the Russia-vs-Ukraine war there are relatively few dead children because the demographics of both counties skews towards adults — not because of the military doctrine of either side. Children make up less than 20% of the…

> Urban conflict in general produces civilian casualties with women, men, and children dying in proportions matching the demographics. You are begging the question still. Citation needed. > In the Russia-vs-Ukraine war there are relatively few dead children because the demographics of both counties skews towards adults — not because of the military doctrine of either side. Children make up less than 20% of the popula…

Let me simplify this for you: Do you believe that 50kg shells or 500kg bombs dropped on apartment blocks selectively kill women and children, or that they kill the people in the apartment block indiscriminately?

Because the arguments being made here are the former: that somehow the Israeli military is going out of its way to target not just civilians, but specifically an excess of women and children... or something to that effect.

Certainly, the bare statement that 65% of the victims of the war are women and children is intended to make people think that.

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#332

Post by funcrush » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:11 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #319

amrocha wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no deception done imo. Your argument is that it’s ok that Israel has killed this many women and kids because they’re over represented in the population. Most people’s perspective is that you shouldn’t kill kids and women and target civilians, regardless of anything else. And you’re ignoring the mountain of evidence of israel deliberately targeting civilians. Just the other day the times published a thorough r…

> report on israeli snipers deliberately targeting toddlers. Link please.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-...

https://www.nytco.com/press/response-to-recent-criticisms-on...

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#333

Post by reshlo » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:13 AM UTC

okasaki wrote: post #324

avmich wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would also be interesting to hear thoughts on the company of somebody like Cory Doctorow. Edit: aha, found. https://doctorow.medium.com/how-palantir-will-steal-the-nhs-... "Palantir is one of the most sinister companies on the global stage, a company whose pitch is to sell humans rights abuses as a service. The customers for this turnkey service include America’s most corrupt police departments, who use Palantir’s…

> Palantir’s clients also include the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a federal agency who rely on Palantir’s products for their ethnic cleansing..." And don't forget the UK National Health Service

That’s the main subject of the linked post by Doctorow.

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#334

Post by reshlo » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:14 AM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #288

asdasdsddd wrote: post #190

I worked there in the weird era. A couple things. 1. As per usual, the things that make palantir well known not even close to being the most dubious things. 2. I agree that the rank and file of palantir is no different from typical sv talent. 3. The services -> product transition was cool, I didn't weigh it as much as should've, but I did purchase fomo insurance after they ipo'd 4. The shadow hierarchy was so bad, it…

This: > I did purchase fomo insurance after they ipo'd Sorry, my English is a bit weak. What is the meaning here? Did you buy shares post-IPO?

FOMO stands for Fear Of Missing Out.

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#335

Post by wonnage » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:16 AM UTC

shiroiushi wrote: post #301

mistermann wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am skeptical, let's run an experiment and see what the response is: Is feeding the homeless so they are not hungry "force"? Is lending a compassionate ear to someone suffering so they may feel a bit better "force"? Is making myself a nice sandwich and watching a movie because I find it pleasant "force"?

>Is making myself a nice sandwich and watching a movie because I find it pleasant "force"? To the chicken, turkey, pig, or cow that died to make the meat in your sandwich, definitely yes.

the mental gymnastics it took to write this hot take must be "force" too

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#336

Post by arczyx » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:20 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #320

arczyx wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Specifically, every one of us who worked in an emergency, intensive care, or surgical setting treated pre-teen children who were shot in the head or chest on a regular or even a daily basis. It is impossible that such widespread shooting of young children throughout Gaza, sustained over the course of an entire year is accidental or unknown to the highest Israeli civilian and military authorities. https://www.gazahe…

I can’t speak knowledgeably about the first point (I doubt many people can, fog of war and all that) but it is well known that Hamas set up command centres in or under hospitals to use them as human shields. Are you telling me that Hamas deserves none of the blame?

> it is well known that Hamas set up command centres in or under hospitals

This is patently false. Israel single-handedly claimed this without any evidence other than CGI render. Think about it, ALL hospitals in Gaza has been bombed by this point, but have you ever see the actual footage of Hamas command centres?

Also pretty sure there was no Hamas involved in the case below:

> In one of the most egregious cases, the Commission investigated the killing of five-year-old Hind Rajab, along with her extended family, and the shelling of a Palestinian Red Crescent Society ambulance and killing of two paramedics sent to rescue her. The Commission determined on reasonable grounds that the Israeli Army’s 162nd Division operated in the area and is responsible for killing the family of seven, shelling the ambulance and killing the two paramedics inside. This constitutes the war crimes of wilful killing and an attack against civilian objects.

Also for the first point, you can read more about it in NYT (if you have the subscription) here: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/16/opinion/gaza-children-dea...

Some people accused it as fake, but NYT themselves had rigorously verified the evidences and found it to be true: https://www.nytco.com/press/response-to-recent-criticisms-on...

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#337

Post by bongodongobob » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:24 AM UTC

ninetyninenine wrote: post #189

bongodongobob wrote: post #183

Palantir was working on my companies data for months getting ready to show us what AI could do for us. Internally I was asking "what could they possibly show us that we don't already know, even theoretically?" No one really had any idea either, but we were skeptically optimistic. Palantir said just wait, this AI shit is amazing and we'll have so many new insights for you. The day finally came and the execs were all i…

I agree, the business use case was zero. Was it impressive though? In the sense that Palantir found out information that you guys already knew... but how much time did it take? How much man power and how much money? What is that compared to the resources your company spent to build that internal knowledge? Also what company was it if you feel comfortable revealing?

It was nothing more than a handful of interns couldn't come up with in the same amount of time. Along the way they just asked obvious questions about how we used and wanted to see our data. There wasn't any magic, there was nothing new. We can make our own reports. We were told they were going to find new insights, there weren't any.

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#338

Post by dan-robertson » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:27 AM UTC

austinjp wrote: post #330

The article reveals depressing reasons why someone might choose to work for the lines of Palantir: lots of talented people working on hard problems. That's pretty much it. No problem with the business model, just intellectual hunger. I'm sure the pay didn't hurt. We need to teach our students that the employment they take doesn't exist in a vacuum. Your choice of employee can impact not only yourself but the wider wo…

Doesn’t the article say the OP wanted to work on meaningful problems in healthcare and bio? I don’t think what you describe sounds like that.

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#339

Post by mentalgear » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:40 AM UTC

In Section 6, the author attempts to assess Palantir's moral standing, but the chosen categories—"neutral/good/gray"—reflect a biased framework. A more objective classification, like "neutral/good/bad," would have been more appropriate. This subtle shift raises questions about the methodology used to evaluate the company's ethical impact.

The introduction of "grey areas" as a distinct category seems to pre-emptively soften the possibility of negative judgments.

Re: Reflections on Palantir

#340

Post by jiggawatts » Thu, Oct 17, 2024, 8:45 AM UTC

funcrush wrote: post #332

jiggawatts wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> report on israeli snipers deliberately targeting toddlers. Link please.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-... https://www.nytco.com/press/response-to-recent-criticisms-on...

For reference, I'm willing to accept every factual statement of the article: the doctor worked in Gaza, he saw many children with bullet wounds to the head or chest, many were single shots, etc...

A relative of mine is a nurse working in a hospital. I noticed a long time ago that her perspective on the statistics of illnesses is very skewed. She sees only very sick patients because -- duh -- she works in a hospital. Hence, she thinks every sniffle of her nephew is an emergency -- because she sees only emergency cases!

There are ~40K dead, ~100K wounded in Gaza by the war, of which half are children: about 70K child casualties of which 50K didn't die.

Parents and hospitals will prioritise children over adults. A child with multiple gunshot wounds will more than likely die on the spot and not be taken to hospital. A child with a single gunshot wound is more likely to cling to life long enough to make it into a hospital. In absolute terms, the few dozens cases mentioned in the article are just the inevitable statistics. I would be very surprised if doctors in Gaza had not treated many more such cases! I would expect a couple of hundred per hospital (there are only 32) at least.

To reiterate: None of this is in any way good, none of the children deserved any of this, and in no way is Israel innocent in the matter. It's just that it is the natural consequence of warfare in a high-density urban setting with that demo.