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Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

arstechnica.com

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Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#331

Post by consteval »

exe34 wrote: post #330
consteval wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great but the trouble is that as you get older medical conditions become harder and harder to find out. They also become more dangerous. I'm telling you this because my father was the same way you are. he avoided going to the doctor at all and diagnosed himself. He also smoked for 60 years. Yeah. He had his first heart attack in his 30s. Very avoidable. His second in his 40s. Then another in his 50s. Finally d…

oh it's not an issue for me, I've been suicidal since I was 12, but don't have the guts to off myself. a few years ago I gave up entirely and decided to wait it out the long way, but the sooner something takes me out, the better. but thank you for the concern :-)

This actually didn't do away with my concern. I'm much more concerned now.

If it helps, keep in mind most medical issues don't kill you. They just lower your quality of life, sometimes a lot. So, if you've decided to stick it out, you might as well try to live the best life you can. Nobody wants to be chronically fatigued, or have bathroom troubles, or lose their hair, or whatever.

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#332

Post by ryandrake »

parpfish wrote: post #294
mtalantikite wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started going to a new dental office a few years back with a bunch of younger staff here in Brooklyn. They clearly spent a ton of money on the build out, and all the dentists were probably 30s/40s. They did the typical "you skipped your x-rays last checkup, you're now 1.5 years behind. You need to do those now" thing. When I asked how much it'd cost out of pocket, they told me an update was $80. I thought "oh wow,…

a couple years ago i needed a new dentist and the only place that I could get into was a big chain that has just expanded into the area (Aspen Dental). it had clean new office and lots of fancy tech that to scan my teeth that i hadn't seen at my little hole-in-the-wall old dentist. i was optimistic. they tell me that I needed four fillings and a root canal, and i was a surprised because i'd been going to a dentist ev…

Everything seems to be going in this direction. We were recently looking for someone to clear out insects and other pests from our property, and every one of them tries to steer you to a very expensive "plan" where you're billed monthly. We looked around for a long time for a veterinarian where there were more actual vet and vet tech staff than there were billing staff. We were recently referred to an orthodontist for my kid, and right from the start they were on us like vultures about their various "payment plans."

I feel like as the years go by, more and more of my cognitive cycles are spent trying to avoid scams and predatory businesses.

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#333

Post by coryrc »

consteval wrote: post #329
lainga wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you to explore, as a thought experiment, what profit opportunities can arise from the intersection of mass medicalisation and body positivity.

I encourage you to be more straight forward with what it is you are implying. These doctors were, and are, actually reducing profit by not treating illnesses and instead prescribing things such as diet, exercise, and stress reduction. And yes, doctors do that. All of them. If you're obese, the first thing out of their mouth is weight management. And yes, this is typically a good thing. But it does mean that lots of g…

When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. The body is extremely complicated and cannot be reproduced for testing. Testing and treatment has a cost not just in money.

If 99% of the time it's just a symptom of being obese, is it really a good idea to put 99 people through unnecessary procedures because 1 other person has a fixable problem? What if said testing procedure has a 1/1000 chance of perforating the colon and causing a serious problem for those 99 people without a tumor?

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#334

Post by dh2022 »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #272
ap99 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say education is a more appealing solution to this problem than universal health care. People similarly get unnecessary work done on their car to boost dealership profits. Do you want to create a government agency to budget how much we can all spend on car repairs and then take it out of our taxes?

This is not about education, it is about morality. So maybe they do need an education, but let that be in empathy and moralilty. And why can't we have education AND universal healthcare? I want a government agnecy (the people) to control the morality of corporations and private equity. Like we have laws against fraud already that protects us from "unnecessary work done on their car to boost dealership profits". Addin…

ooh, dentists are very well educated in empathy and morality. They even have to take an ethical oath before they get their license. So is not lack of education, is greed and maybe a ton of student debt (or both).

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#335

Post by r00fus »

dnissley wrote: post #318
r00fus wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private Equity taking over all businesses is going to be our undoing.

Pensioners gotta get paid somehow

That's a wild take. Hedge funds and PE have corrupted and taken over said pension funds then pushing funds into these usurious ventures by claiming that the pension fund "needs to keep up with the market" is another huge sign of decay.

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#336

Post by mekoka »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #262
pizza234 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the robust evidence for even things as common as flossing I'm always baffled by all the discussions about flossing, as it's something that can be very easily verified empirically: one can just floss for a month, then stop doing it for another month, then resume and get a feeling for how the gums react. If they bleed or burn (lightly), then the efficacy is evident; if not... lucky person! No need for research either…

How is "if you don't floss for a month it hurts when you floss" evidence flossing is good for you? It's the same phenomenon as something like the calluses guitar players get. If they take a few weeks off, it'll hurt a bit when they play. That doesn't mean the activity improves their health. It means if you poke a part of the body enough it handles being poked better.

It's not universal, but gingivitis (a minor gum disease) causes inflammation (thus pain). Some people are more prone to it due to their teeth arrangement. Some teeth tend to trap food, which then rots, promotes bacteria, and so forth. Flossing helps alleviate this. The initial floss tends to be strikingly different to the follow-ups (not unexpected). More bleeding and more pain (because of existing inflammation), also more gunk and funk (rotten food particles and bacteria).

One notable effect when regular flossing is sustained is that your whole mouth just feels generally less sensitive and healthy. Less pain when you chew, your breath feels fresher for longer. The reverse can also be noticed when you stop flossing.

As I said, this is not universal since not everyone has the same teeth arrangement. Which is one more argument in favor of not waiting for evidence. It's considerably cheaper to just get some 3$ dental floss, try it for a month, and see for yourself.

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#337

Post by DowagerDave »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #258
mtalantikite wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started going to a new dental office a few years back with a bunch of younger staff here in Brooklyn. They clearly spent a ton of money on the build out, and all the dentists were probably 30s/40s. They did the typical "you skipped your x-rays last checkup, you're now 1.5 years behind. You need to do those now" thing. When I asked how much it'd cost out of pocket, they told me an update was $80. I thought "oh wow,…

This is my experience as well. When I'm looking for a new dentist it usually takes me 3 appointments, each with a different dentist, before I find the dentist that tells me "the other two were ripping you off." It's frustrating but I agree that new builds or expensive locales seem to amplify this effect. Established shops in less fancy areas tend to leave me feeling much better and are almost always quicker while bei…

I grew up without any dental coverage and you are right; if you say first thing "I have no coverage and pay for everything out of pocket" you typically get a very different experience.

It's not just the dentists that are perfectionists, but culturally perfect teeth is an expectation in a lot of the world now. I get it; a kid who's hesitant to smile because they're embarrassed with their teeth is heart-breaking, but it's also very expensive.

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#338

Post by darepublic »

pandatigox wrote: post #109

Current final year dental student pitching in here. While dentists of the past may push for unnecessary annual radiographs, the curriculum in dental school has changed to favour evidence-based dentistry. Annual bitewings are only indicated if you're a high caries risk, and, as the article mentions, 2-3 years if you're low caries risk. So your younger/newer dentist will be following much better protocols (and hopefull…

I've experienced the opposite. Trendy dental offices with indoor playgrounds, prizes, and always an excuse for xraying and filling children's teeth

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#339

Post by DowagerDave »

reneherse wrote: post #256
mtalantikite wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started going to a new dental office a few years back with a bunch of younger staff here in Brooklyn. They clearly spent a ton of money on the build out, and all the dentists were probably 30s/40s. They did the typical "you skipped your x-rays last checkup, you're now 1.5 years behind. You need to do those now" thing. When I asked how much it'd cost out of pocket, they told me an update was $80. I thought "oh wow,…

My guess is the dental practice was owned by a private equity firm and the young docs were "just following orders". Highly capitalized, expensive leasehold improvements plus obscure pricing and surprise charges seem to be the typical playbook of that business model. Reliable doctor-owned dental practices seem to be increasingly hard to find, at least here in the urban Southeastern US

sounds like every Vet practice as well. There's lots of things wrong with Canada's public health care system, but the downsides we see with private dental and vet care should be alarming as well.

Re: Routine dental X-rays are not backed by evidence

#340

Post by exe34 »

consteval wrote: post #331
exe34 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh it's not an issue for me, I've been suicidal since I was 12, but don't have the guts to off myself. a few years ago I gave up entirely and decided to wait it out the long way, but the sooner something takes me out, the better. but thank you for the concern :-)

This actually didn't do away with my concern. I'm much more concerned now. If it helps, keep in mind most medical issues don't kill you. They just lower your quality of life, sometimes a lot. So, if you've decided to stick it out, you might as well try to live the best life you can. Nobody wants to be chronically fatigued, or have bathroom troubles, or lose their hair, or whatever.

you don't need to worry, once I gave up on mental health, I've never been better. nothing really bothers me anymore.
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