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1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

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Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#331
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when the researcher said it was a bug, they said, "No, it's fine. No bug bounty, sorry." THEN the researcher eventually goes public. Later, Zendesk announces the bug and the fix and says there will be no bug bounty because the researcher went public. Is that how it went? I mean if so, that's one way to save on bug bounties.

> THEN the researcher eventually goes public. He should have said since its not going to be fixed, he will just inform the individual companies.

Once they'd brushed him off and made it clear they were not interested in listening to him, resolving the bug, or living up to the usual expectations that researchers have in companies claiming to have bug bounties on HackerOne, I'd say they lost any reasonable expectation that he'd do that.

I'll note he did go to the effort of having the first stab at that sort of resolution, when he pushed back on HackerOne's inaccurate triage of the bug as an SPF/DKIM/DMARC email issue. He clearly understood the need for triage for programs like this, and that the HackerOne internal triage team didn't understand the actual problem, but again was rebuffed.

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#332
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably one of the PMs you’re referring to has posted this article for additional information. Feels like they’re doubling down on their initial position. https://support.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/8187090244506-...

In damage control mode, Zendesk can't pay a bounty out here? Come on. This is amateur hour. The reputational damage that comes from "the company that goes on the offensive and doesn't pay out legitimate bounties" impacts the overall results you get from a bug bounty program. "Pissing off the hackers" is not a way to keep people reporting credible bugs to your service. I don't understand what this tries to accomplish.…

"Hi, we are ZenDesk, a support ticket SaaS with a bug bounty program that we outsource to our effected customers, who pay out an order of magnitude more than our puny fake HackerOne program. Call now, to be ridiculously upsold on our Enterprise package!"

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#333

The piece the author is missing, and why zendesk likely ignored this is impact, and it's something I continually see submissions lacking. As a researcher, if you can't demonstrate impact of your vulnerability, then it looks like just another bug. A public program like zendesk is going to be swamped with reports, and they're using hackerone triagers to augment that volume. The triage system reads through a lot of repo…

Unauthorized read access to private emails you were never legitimately CCed on already is impact. It should not be necessary to come up with a further exploit daisy chained on top of that in order to be taken seriously. (Otherwise why stop at Slack access? Why is that automatically "impact" if email access isn't?)

Exactly.

It's possible that some chains could have credentials or other sensitive information in ticket chains.

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#334
post #11

A $1.3 billion revenue company being too tight to pay this after all, even on their 2nd chance, is so short-sighted it's absurd. They're putting out a huge sign saying "When you find a vuln, definitely contact all our clients because we won't be giving you a penny!". Incredible. This must be some kind of "damaged ego" or ass-covering, as it's clearly not a rational decision. Edit: Another user here has pointed out th…

> A $1.3 billion revenue company being too tight to pay this after all, even on their 2nd chance, is so short-sighted it's absurd. I'll give an "another side" perspective. My company was much smaller. Out of 10+ "I found a vulnerability" emails I got last year, all were something like mass-produced emails generated based on an automated vulnerability scanning tool. Investigating all of those for "is it really an issu…

I understand, this is exactly why I noted "even on their 2nd chance". The initial lack of payout/meaningful response was incompetency by not understanding the severity of the vuln. Fine, happens.

But after the PoC that showed the severity in a way that anyone could understand, they still didn't pay. That's the issue. The whole investigation was done for them.

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#335

In case it's not clear these are the two separate vulnerabilities: 1. Zendesk allows you to add a CC to any existing support ticket by sending a (spoofed) reply from the original requestor's email address to that ticket's Reply-To address and including a CC in the email. In some circumstances the Reply-To address is based on an auto-incrementing integer so it can be guessed. (Although this may not alway be the case:…

IMHO the second problem goes deeper: Sign In with Apple is allowing you to "create an account"(author's words) on @company.com, which should not be supported in the firat place. Instead, it should rely in a central directory controlled by company.com for authentication

Those with Apple Business or School Manager can now claim domain names which blocks sign ups under claimed domain names.

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#336
post #3

It sounds like the author got stiffed by Zendesk on this bug, $0 due to email spoofing being out of scope. The $50k was from other bug bounties he was awarded on hackerone. It's too bad Zendesk basically said "thanks" but then refused to pay anything. That's a good way to get people not to bother with your big bounty program. It is often better to build goodwill than to be a stickler for rules and technicalities. Sid…

> That's a good way to get people not to bother with your big bounty program.

And possibly to have blackhats to start looking more closely, since they now know both 1) that whitehats are likely to be focusing elsewhere leaving more available un-reviewed attack surface, and 2) that Zendesk appears to be the sort of company who'll ignore and/or hide known vulnerabilities, giving exploits a much longer effective working time.

If "the bad guys" discovered this (or if it had been discovered by a less ethically developed 15 year old who'd boasted about it in some Discord or hacker channel) I wonder just how many companies would have had interlopers in their Slack channels harvesting social engineering intelligence or even passwords/secrets/API keys freely shared in Slack channels? And I wonder how many other widely (or even narrowly) used 3rd party SaaS platforms can be exploited via Zendesk in exactly the same way. Pretty much any service that uses the email domain to "prove" someone works for a particular company and then grants them some level of access based on that would be vulnerable to having ZenDesk leak email confirmations to anybody who knows this bug.

Hell, I suspect it'd work to harvest password reset tokens too. That could give you account takeover for anything not using 2FA (which is, to a first approximation over the whole internet, everything).

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work, I didnt get another answer from an LLM which pretty much never respond without elaborating

You will typically be held liable for who you are selling your bugs to. If your bug ends up in the wrong hands you can’t just say “but I deal with everyone”.

Just like the gun manufacturers, right?

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#338
post #3

It sounds like the author got stiffed by Zendesk on this bug, $0 due to email spoofing being out of scope. The $50k was from other bug bounties he was awarded on hackerone. It's too bad Zendesk basically said "thanks" but then refused to pay anything. That's a good way to get people not to bother with your big bounty program. It is often better to build goodwill than to be a stickler for rules and technicalities. Sid…

If I am not mistaken, it wasn't zendesk that didn't want to recognize the bug, but HackerOne that did not escalate to Zendesk that they should reconsider the exclusion ground in this case. As an aside, I wonder if those bounties in general reflect the real value of those bugs. The economic damage could be way higher, given that people share logins in support tickets. I would have expected that the price on the black…

> If I am not mistaken, it wasn't zendesk that didn't want to recognize the bug

While it's unclear at which stage Zendesk became involved, in the "aftermath" section it's clear they knew of the H1 report, since they responded there. And later on the post says:

"Despite fixing the issue, Zendesk ultimately chose not to award a bounty for my report. Their reasoning? I had broken HackerOne's disclosure guidelines by sharing the vulnerability with affected companies."

The best care scenario as I see it is that Zendesk has a problem they need to fix with their H1 triage process and/or their in and out of scope rules there. And _none_ of that is the researcher's problem.

The worst (and in my opinion most likely) scenario, is that Zendesk did get notified when the researcher asked H1 to escalate their badly triaged denial to Zendesk for review, and Zendesk chose to deny any bounty and tried to hide their vulnerability.

> As an aside, I wonder if those bounties in general reflect the real value of those bugs. The economic damage could be way higher, given that people share logins in support tickets.

I think it's way worse than that, since internal teams often share logins/secrets/API keys (and details of architecture and networking that a smart blackhat would _love_ to have access to) in thei supposedly "internal" Slack channels. I think the fact that non Zendesk "affected companies" paid out $50k sets that as the absolute lower bound of "the real value of those bugs. And it's _obvious_ that the researcher didn't contact _every_ vulnerable Slack-using organisation. I wonder how much more he could have made by disclosing this to 10 or 100 times as many Slack using organisations, and delaying/stalling revealing his exploit POC to Zendesk while that money kept rolling in?

I'll be interested to see if HackerOne react to this, to avoid the next researcher going for this "second level" of bug bounty payouts by not bothering with H1 or the vulnerable company, and instead disclosing to companies affected by the vulnerability instead of the companies with the vulnerability? It's kinda well known that H1 buy bounties are relatively small, compared to the effort required to craft a tricky POC. But people disclose there anyway, presumably party out of ethical concerns and partly for the reputation boost. But now we know you can probably get an order of magnitude more money by approaching 3rd party affected companies instead of cheapskate or outright abusive companies with H1 bounties that they choose to downvalue and not pay out on.

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#339
You are a sucker if you are using a platform like HackerOne. I reported a bug (Crypto Exchange, Bitmex) 5 years ago. It was not a critical bug, but still. The team kept the bug report open for 5 years; I assume so that it doesn't affect their payout score. They recognized the bug. After 5 years they closed it. Zero communication.

If you value your time and your health, don't use these platforms. If platforms want security, they can hire people by the hour/day and pay them the relevant wages.

Re: 1 bug, $50k in bounties, a Zendesk backdoor

#340
post #11

A $1.3 billion revenue company being too tight to pay this after all, even on their 2nd chance, is so short-sighted it's absurd. They're putting out a huge sign saying "When you find a vuln, definitely contact all our clients because we won't be giving you a penny!". Incredible. This must be some kind of "damaged ego" or ass-covering, as it's clearly not a rational decision. Edit: Another user here has pointed out th…

> A $1.3 billion revenue company being too tight to pay this after all, even on their 2nd chance, is so short-sighted it's absurd. I'll give an "another side" perspective. My company was much smaller. Out of 10+ "I found a vulnerability" emails I got last year, all were something like mass-produced emails generated based on an automated vulnerability scanning tool. Investigating all of those for "is it really an issu…

We also had this problem in my previous company a few years ago, a 20-people company, but somehow we attracted much more attention.

In one specific instance, we had 20 emails in a single month about a specific Wordpress PHP endpoint that had a vulnerability, in a separate market site in another domain. The thing is, it had already been replaced by our Wordpress contractor as part of the default install, but it was returning 200.

But being a static page didn't stop the people running scanners from asking us from money even after they were informed of the above.

The solution? Delete it altogether to return 404.

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