Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democrats aren’t the liberal media, and the current Democratic controlled government also happen to be subsidizing both SpaceX and Tesla
No SpaceX subsidies. It's not a thing in the launch industry.
Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
331–340 of 374 posts
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democrats aren’t the liberal media, and the current Democratic controlled government also happen to be subsidizing both SpaceX and Tesla
SpaceX isn't subsidized and the govt tried really really hard to exclude Tesla from EV subsidies, and reversed at the last minute.
> really really hard to exclude Tesla
Whatever they really really did didn't actually matter in the end though did it? I'm sure if they tried really really really hard, they could have just stopped it outright with an executive order.
But really, it makes more sense for EV subsidies went towards companies in competition with the leader that doesn't really need it. More competitors means more jobs, and lower prices. Giving subsidies to the established leader (by a whopping large margin) isn't really doing anything useful.
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow.. what did I fake quote? What claims were unsupported? My question to you whether you were talking about FEMA or civilians was a QUESTION!! It was not a logical trap. I wanted to understand what you were saying better. That you ranted about it, put words into my mouth - does not bode well. It was a clarifying question. I don't need you feeling anything about me just as much as you don't need correcting. I do thin…
This is the last thing I am going to say to you, after twice now I have told you I am done with this conversation. There is absolutely nothing further to discuss between us, but I want to make this point abundantly clear for anyone who is clicking 'expand' on all of your downvoted comments: "Is that a real example?" Yes. It was one of the people who were specifically asking that this action be taken, after they clean…
I would agree it is better ended.
> I want to make this point abundantly clear for anyone who is clicking 'expand' on all of your downvoted comments
In a similar vein, you did not identify any fake quotes that you accused me of, nor identified any unsupported claims (though I concede you could have identified one, which was poorly written and reasonably could have been considered a claim)
> "Is that a real example?" Yes.
That is excellent. Quite cool.
> That is just one person out of many who are trying to help, while you spend hours hovering in this thread
I am in a hotel right now. Staging and waiting to go in. My presence is not going to be a net benefit right now compared to my own resource usage. I'm going to be in western NC in a few days. FWIW
> looking to use your carefully crafted but incredibly transparent attempt to look very 'logical' and 'unbiased' as a cudgel
If it looks that way, and I never brought out the cudgel, how do you know it was dishonest and not just questions? I even agreed with and asked if you were talking about citizens or FEMA. You then went off accusing me of laying some trap and all these other things (after I _agreed_ with you!) You further accused me of saying civilians could not be first responders, a diatribe that put your words into my mouth.
> while you attempt to de-legitimize and minimize their efforts.
Respectfully, you read that in. You attributed motive. I am not a random person on Twitter or reddit just trying to dunk on you.
I did not accept, at first read, that "first month free" was significant. I see how it is more so now. (And you accused me of extreme anti-Musk bias, to which is disproven when I say following everything I have changed my perspective. I see how first month free is helpful and supported a significant assistance, of which starlink was a very notable part).
Yet, questioning "first month free", does not delegitimize what people are doing. It is skepticism.
> hope you find peace within yourself
FWIW. I am okay with all of this convo and have never been upset. Annoyed and disappointed perhaps, but not upset. I might not have clearly conveyed everything I wanted to, but my questions were honest questions here. Not logic traps.
> (or at least go back to reddit).
Ironic since I don't read reddit, and never once started an X (twitter) account. This is why I was pointing out and reminding you to avoid personal attacks & shallow dismissals (per the discussion guidelines). The guidelines say as conversations go on, they should get more interesting. Which is why I asked you to point out unsupported claims so you could illustrate why (and give more information, and add context and light). Instead you tellingly refused to point anything out, resorted to incorrect hyperbole and personal attacks. I feel that was about half of what you wrote in the end.
I don't want to close on that. I did find 50% of what you had to say to be informative and genuinely interesting and did cure me of some ignorance (and i feel this would have been a very good convo had we been able to stick to that.)
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, I went and looked and the free 30-day trial was already in place weeks before the natural disaster: https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/starlink-internet-review/ They didn’t do anything but offer the same deal they would to anyone else.
Oh wow quite the own. You really did something there. Do you mind demonstrating how you can unpackage the device and connect straight to the internet without going through the activation hurdles? If not, this is the most irrelevant piece of information you could possibly use to make your misguided point. First responders on their own volition brought StarLink terminals on site, which REQUIRE ACTIVATION regardless of…
I have personally activated, paid for, and sent on expeditions multiple Starlink systems, including the newer marine version.
You seem very upset about something I’m not talking about.
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
Edited to a week. I was actually shocked how quickly my in-laws got power back with how widespread the destruction was and how many of the roads are out. They have well water so as soon as power was back on they obviously have water.
In Asheville / if you're close to the river, it's still recommended to boil your water. (I'm in Marshall ~700ft higher than downtown, so I'm assuming it's fine where I am, but guidance has been non-specific.)
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
Offering a "30 day free trial" doesn't really feel like a gift as much as it's an ad for the service trying to onboard customers. It's not a bad thing per se, just kind of in poor taste.
I agree. Giving the equipment out for free*, 30 days free, and no return charge would smell of true disaster relief rather than promo. * perhaps equipment charge after 30 days, or a half off on the equipment after 30 days. Those would very feel reasonable.
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#337It's nice that Musk and his companies always seem to be willing to provide free emergency services. Over various disasters they've provided free energy, internet, and cell service. I can't believe people complain about charity when so many other companies do nothing. Same with Mr.Beast's charity acts. There's something wrong with people who do nothing and hate on other people doing charity.
> I can't believe people complain about charity when so many other companies do nothing. It is possible that people are interpreting this 30 day promotional period as “Starlink offers hurricane survivors $120/mo internet access starting November 2nd”, which would not be factually inaccurate assuming today as the start date of the promotion. $120/mo is roughly double the average broadband cost in e.g. the Asheville ar…
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democrats aren’t the liberal media, and the current Democratic controlled government also happen to be subsidizing both SpaceX and Tesla
Biden held an EV summit in 2021 and didn't invite Tesla. At the summit he called GM's CEO Mary Barra the pioneer of EVs when GM produced only 28 EVs that quarter and Tesla like 200K. They also tried to make the EV subsidies not apply to Tesla. On Reddit any positive news about SpaceX like the first private spacewalk is actively downvoted by democrats and liberals. And any negative news is hugely amplified whether tru…
Looking at this thread, I'm seeing that it's the anti-Elon commenters that have been downvoted, flagged, and silenced. And instead there seems to be a lot of conspicuously biased anti-Democrat Elon supporters who seem untarnished. So I'm not buying these claims of persecution.
As for your claims around subsidies, see my responses to the sibling comments – assuming your not a bot.
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
This makes sense. “Growth” can be skewed if you only look at a person’s words and actions. The side of the equation that we imagine in our minds has be weighed equally lest we take a combination of a person’s own words about their values and thoroughly documented and uncontested accounts from others as being somehow reflective of a person’s character.
> “Growth” can be skewed if you only look at a person’s words and actions I guess my point is that his words and actions haven't been one sided. e.g., He assists Ukraine, but he also supports Trump who has implied he will withdraw US support and force a 'peace', which likely will be at the expense of Ukrainian territory and embolden Russia to make future incursions in neighboring countries. He kickstarted the battery…
Where a simple mind might look at Musk and Russia and conclude “he supports Russia” based off his words and actions or similarly conclude that he has no interest in the environment or conservation based on the same process of observation, a wiser person makes the extra effort to reject coherence in order to become retroactively confused.
Re: Starlink offering free internet access for 30 days for Hurricane Helene victims
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
1gbps to the house doesn’t mean you’re not oversubscribed. An ISP that has a 10,000 homes on 1gbps connections absolutely does not pay for 10 tbps of transit capacity or even internal capacity to carry all that to its peering points. Cheaper fiber to homes definitely made last mile scale better bandwidth-wise, but it didn’t change the fundamental nature of needing to heavily oversubscribe to make it affordable.
Many major services e.g. Youtube, Netflix, Cloudflare have servers colocated with ISPs. So they don't need to have equivalent transit capacity. Which is not a capability Starlink can provide.
Youtube meets you at exchange points and if you’re an ISP anywhere that isn’t a major city, there isn’t an exchange point there.
Take a place like Boise and a municipal fiber provider there. They aren’t big enough for Netflix to offer an OCA and there isn’t an exchange in Boise with good content provider density on the fabric. So that provider needs to pay for transit or a private lease to the nearest big exchange (SEA, PDX, barely SLC) where it can get connectivity.
Your mental model is completely wrong for ISPs that aren’t serving the same city as one of the <10 major exchanges in the US.