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Boeing workers vote to strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#331

Post by wetpaws »

jandrese wrote: post #303
iancmceachern wrote: post #86

Any Boeing engineers who may be looking for alternate paths, please know that I've known many great aerospace engineers who have made a pivot to medical devices very successfully and many of the best medical devices to come out in recent years are due to such. It seems very different but really it's very similar.

On one hand I can't blame any engineer that wants to flee, but on the other Boeing really can't afford any more brain drain. We are already seeing the results of years of forcing experienced but well paid engineers out and outsourcing their jobs. Planes literally falling out of the sky, but some nice fat executive bonuses.

Why it should be the engineers problem?

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#332

Post by Larrikin »

linguae wrote: post #294
Larrikin wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to a DMV or a post office in a country that isn't the US. It can actually be a pleasant experience.

It depends on the country, though. I love Japan, where I lived for eight months and where I frequently travel to, but dealing with government services there can be stressful. Granted, the clerks are professional and cordial, but be prepared to deal with long waits and perplexing bureaucracy. The United States is not unique when it comes to the stereotypical “DMV experience.”

I actually lived in Japan for some years and was thinking specifically of them.

People that care at the post office, even if they have a litany of questions, and deliver your package in pristine condition is the preferred result over crap service where nobody in the entire chain cares at all if it even shows up or if it's beat up and stuff fell out.

The only government service that felt purposefully bad, like many American government services, were the immigration services in Shinagawa, conveniently located next to the garbage processing facilities.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#333

Post by mc32 »

Maybe in this contract they both can have provisions in for poor workmanship and poor engineering decisions. Both for the shop floor as well as the management.

You ship defects, you get salary or bonus deductions and vestments pulled.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#334

Post by willcipriano »

bluGill wrote: post #326
willcipriano wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roughly 2.2 trillion on the credit card for Afghanistan alone. That's without the interest that will be paid on it. Your grandkids children will be paying for that war.

The only time anyone cares about that debt is when democrats are in control of the government - then republicans care. (sometimes when republicans control congress and the democrats control the president they care, but it is not as much then)

The only president in my lifetime to not start any wars isn't really liked by either the democrats or the establishment republicans. Both parties are big fans of losing wars for some reason.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#335

Post by evilos »

marcusverus wrote: post #296
mnau wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hired the lead prosecutor that cut them a deal. To be precise a Boeing criminal defence firma hired her after she left the Justice department. It's the American way.

> Boeing’s lead corporate criminal defense law firm is Kirkland & Ellis. Cox, the lead prosecutor in the Boeing case, left the Justice Department earlier this year. And last month she joined Kirkland & Ellis as a partner in its Dallas office. It looks like the firm bought the prosecutor, resulting in a win for its client. How could this be prevented, though? Politicians can't be trusted with oversight like this--they…

Can't a law be passed that states prosecutors legally cannot consult or assist in cases or for defendants they were involved with during their tenure as a prosecutor for X years after they leave their position?

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#336

Post by uses »

segasaturn wrote: post #323

[flagged]

Which ones are "these unions", or is this just a generic shaking fist at cloud moment?

> I was lucky to get a 5% raise this year and my wage is frozen until next year, basic insurance and absolutely no pension

I mean... maybe you should join a union?

> The workers of the union clearly aren't even doing a good job considering how many mechanical failures have affected their jets!

I guess you're trolling, but obviously the leadership who made the strategic decisions over decades that lead to these problems are not members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers District 751.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#337

Post by DrillShopper »

segasaturn wrote: post #323

[flagged]

Boeing as an independent entity may not exist in six months to a year if they can’t get their shit together - either someone will buy them or the government will nationalize/bail them out.

Get all you can while you can. The riskier your business is the more labor costs.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#338

Post by immibis »

obscuretone wrote: post #70
sofixa wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MCAS failure was a multilayered one. The engineers who designed it, software engineers who developed it, QA, testing, pilots, managers who approved, managers who instilled that work culture, etc etc are all responsible and should all have been fired and sentenced to prison for their negligence and dereliction of duty.

If everyone is a little bit responsible then no one is fully responsible. It’s like dieselgate. Or the Pornhub chaos. The VP’s tell the directors to get it done. The directors get it done. There’s a liability force field and those that protect and serve are elevated.

The phrase "accountability sink" was brought up recently in the context of AI.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#339

Post by immibis »

sofixa wrote: post #109
lnsru wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thing with duty feeling is hard. They all feel they did their best. Exactly as my precursor who spend 17 years in the role and did way below bare minimum. No single comment in the code. Last project does not work at all, but was approved as finished. Laziness and ignorance are everywhere. As long as managers accept it there is no way to stop that. Maybe I should stop drawing flowcharts in ascii art manner. Nobod…

> This thing with duty feeling is hard. They all feel they did their best If you work in aerospace and your "best" is non-redundant inputs from a sensor known to fail, you're not good enough for aerospace and never were. I know not to do that and I'm just a former SRE who also likes air crash investigation. My homelab has more redundancy than a critical system that could by design crash an airplane. And people at Boe…

I heard this was done on purpose because they'd need a lot more documentation if the system was important, and having redundancy would tip off the FAA to its importance.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#340

Post by Nifty3929 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #330

In my mind, this is an unalloyed good The practice alone of organizing labor power against owners, irrespective of the demands, given the existing state of the world, is what is needed to show Class solidarity. Simply showing class solidarity in order to kick off other strikes is valuable in and of itself. Y’all really have to understand a general strike is coming. A general strike means the labor class (you most lik…

This is an ancient and universal idea, that has failed to deliver prosperity and growth, and often drives societies that were once flourishing into starvation.

Capitalism is the new, cool, unique idea that has actually delivered prosperity for society. Not perfectly evenly, but certainly more evenly than other ideas like socialism, fascism and feudalism.

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