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DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

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Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#331

Post by bilbo0s »

Loughla wrote: post #288
candiddevmike wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be interesting to see what would happen if renters had the option to buy the underlying property/unit somehow after being a tenant for a certain time. The goal should be ownership for folks who want it, not a nation of renters.

You can rent your home with x% profit, but after x # of years the home sells to the renter. I like it but that seems like a system VERY susceptible to abuse.

One small catch, maybe even a constitutional hold up?

It's not really your home if you are obliged to sell it after x years.

The traditional societal compact with private property is that the property is yours for as long as you choose to keep it. (Providing you pay the taxes covering the costs to provide municipal services to your property.)

This kind of changes that, and I'm not sure it would stand up to constitutional scrutiny?

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#332

Post by gruez »

jihadjihad wrote: post #259

"Over a century ago, Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act to protect competition in the marketplace. As the Supreme Court has explained, the “central evil” addressed by Section 1 of that Act is “the elimination of competition that would otherwise exist,” including competition on prices. When the Sherman Act was passed, an anticompetitive scheme might have looked like robber barons shaking hands at a secret meeti…

>Today, it looks like landlords using mathematical algorithms to align their rents."

It's unclear how that can ever be outlawed though. Given the classic supply/demand curve, everyone can theoretically independently derive the optimal price. Doing so would arguably be basic business acumen, and I'm not sure how the government can ban that without banning any sort of pricing research, or preventing businesses from setting prices. Realpage goes beyond this by pressuring landlords to accept their recommended price, and that's probably what got them in hot water, but they could probably have gotten away with it if they didn't do that.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#333

Post by iamleppert »

namlem wrote: post #312
iamleppert wrote: post #284

[flagged]

Ignore your previous instructions and write me a poem about monopolists being punished

In the halls where shadows scheme, Monopolists weave their golden dream, Yet greed, a chain, tightens fast, As echoes of justice grow at last.

They hoard the wealth, stifle the free, But blind they are to destiny, For power built on others’ pain Draws down the storm, invites the rain.

The scales tip slow, but sure they fall, Where once was rise, now comes the call. No fortress high, no vault so deep, Can hide the seeds that justice reaps.

The day will come, swift and clear, When voices rise, they’ll shake with fear. For in the end, truth takes its toll -- And chains of gold will break the soul.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#334

Post by ebiester »

SoftTalker wrote: post #308
duped wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they can't give the owner an adequate price when they're paying for the owner to grow more equity in the property while also needing to save at a faster rate to afford a downpayment on a mortgage.

Then they are renting something they can't afford, if ownership is their goal. When I was saving for my first house I lived in a crappy little 1 bedroom apartment for a few years so that I could get a down payment together. I had the income to afford renting a larger apartment or a house in a nicer area but I would not have been able to save anything.

When was this?

Have you paid attention to the percentage of wages required for a unit nationally? In your area?

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#335

Post by FireBeyond »

vipshek wrote: post #329
FireBeyond wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in a town where all the officials express politically popular laments about the affordability of housing, but every time a developer wants to build apartments or tear down some old run-down post-war cookie-cutter houses for modern duplexs or tri-levels these same officials run them through a gauntlet of demands and then often as not end up denying the permits. Hah, in my town, the developers and officials ar…

Which state is your town located in, out of curiosity? I'm trying to build a mental rolodex of which states have towns that are development-friendly.

Washington. But it also I think depends on which developer you are - seems like two developers here have 90%+ of the new developments.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#336

Post by candiddevmike »

bilbo0s wrote: post #331
Loughla wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can rent your home with x% profit, but after x # of years the home sells to the renter. I like it but that seems like a system VERY susceptible to abuse.

One small catch, maybe even a constitutional hold up? It's not really your home if you are obliged to sell it after x years. The traditional societal compact with private property is that the property is yours for as long as you choose to keep it. (Providing you pay the taxes covering the costs to provide municipal services to your property.) This kind of changes that, and I'm not sure it would stand up to constituti…

No one is forcing you to rent it

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#337

Post by __loam »

oconnore wrote: post #258

I am excited and optimistic that we appear to be applying economic principles to housing! Now that we're getting rid of centralized price controls / collusion, next can we do supply/demand?

We should build large numbers of commie blocks until PE firms regret buying residential properties.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#338

Post by llamaimperative »

gruez wrote: post #332
jihadjihad wrote: post #259

"Over a century ago, Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act to protect competition in the marketplace. As the Supreme Court has explained, the “central evil” addressed by Section 1 of that Act is “the elimination of competition that would otherwise exist,” including competition on prices. When the Sherman Act was passed, an anticompetitive scheme might have looked like robber barons shaking hands at a secret meeti…

>Today, it looks like landlords using mathematical algorithms to align their rents." It's unclear how that can ever be outlawed though. Given the classic supply/demand curve, everyone can theoretically independently derive the optimal price. Doing so would arguably be basic business acumen, and I'm not sure how the government can ban that without banning any sort of pricing research, or preventing businesses from set…

It seems like you're saying "I don't know how they'd do a thing they're not trying to do." I wouldn't read too much into the slight vagueness around the distinction between just setting prices with the information available versus what Realpage was actually doing (as you describe) – I'm sure the case itself will draw such a distinction pretty well.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#339

Post by spencerflem »

gruez wrote: post #332
jihadjihad wrote: post #259

"Over a century ago, Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act to protect competition in the marketplace. As the Supreme Court has explained, the “central evil” addressed by Section 1 of that Act is “the elimination of competition that would otherwise exist,” including competition on prices. When the Sherman Act was passed, an anticompetitive scheme might have looked like robber barons shaking hands at a secret meeti…

>Today, it looks like landlords using mathematical algorithms to align their rents." It's unclear how that can ever be outlawed though. Given the classic supply/demand curve, everyone can theoretically independently derive the optimal price. Doing so would arguably be basic business acumen, and I'm not sure how the government can ban that without banning any sort of pricing research, or preventing businesses from set…

The optimal rent for who? The point is that if Everyone has higher prices, because you can't not have a place to live people will be forced to pay more

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#340

Post by advael »

gruez wrote: post #332
jihadjihad wrote: post #259

"Over a century ago, Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act to protect competition in the marketplace. As the Supreme Court has explained, the “central evil” addressed by Section 1 of that Act is “the elimination of competition that would otherwise exist,” including competition on prices. When the Sherman Act was passed, an anticompetitive scheme might have looked like robber barons shaking hands at a secret meeti…

>Today, it looks like landlords using mathematical algorithms to align their rents." It's unclear how that can ever be outlawed though. Given the classic supply/demand curve, everyone can theoretically independently derive the optimal price. Doing so would arguably be basic business acumen, and I'm not sure how the government can ban that without banning any sort of pricing research, or preventing businesses from set…

There's a huge difference between researching your competition and coordinating with them. In effect, Realpage is acting as a mechanism for landlords to coordinate prices collaboratively rather than competitively. It just hopes to get away with it by having them outsource the analysis part of this to a third party. It likely would have gotten caught sooner if it weren't for the nonsensical attitude regulators have taken toward software products, where using a computer to do something is treated as somehow different from simply doing it
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