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Open source AI is the path forward

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Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#331

Post by bun_at_work »

pwdisswordfishd wrote: post #311
cs702 wrote: post #74

> We’re releasing Llama 3.1 405B, the first frontier-level open source AI model, as well as new and improved Llama 3.1 70B and 8B models. Bravo! While I don't agree with Zuck's views and actions on many fronts, on this occasion I think he and the AI folks at Meta deserve our praise and gratitude. With this release, they have brought the cost of pretraining a frontier 400B+ parameter model to ZERO for pretty much ever…

Makes me wonder why he's really doing this. Zuckerberg being Zuckerberg, it can't be out of any genuine sense of altruism. Probably just wants to crush all competitors before he monetizes the next generation of Meta AI.

I really think the value of this for Meta is content generation. More open models (especially state of the art) means more content is being generated, and more content is being shared on Meta platforms, so there is more advertising revenue for Meta.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#332

Post by wrsh07 »

sheepscreek wrote: post #310
tambourine_man wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Praising is good. Gratitude is a bit much. They got this big by selling user generated content and private info to the highest bidder. Often through questionable means. Also, the underdog always touts Open Source and standards, so it’s good to remain skeptical when/if tables turn.

All said and done, it is a very expensive and balsy way to undercut competitors. They’ve spent > $5B on hardware alone, much of which will depreciate in value quickly. Pretty sure the only reason Meta’s managed to do this is because of Zuck’s iron grip on the board (majority voting rights). This is great for Open Source and regular people though!

Zuck made a bet when they provisioned for reels to buy enough GPUs to be able to spin up another reels-sized service.

Llama is probably just running on spare capacity (I mean, sure, they've kept increasing capex, but if they're worried about an llm-based fb competitor they sort of have to in order to enact their copycat strategy)

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#333

Post by dfadsadsf »

FinchNova12 wrote: post #85

> Our adversaries are great at espionage, stealing models that fit on a thumb drive is relatively easy, and most tech companies are far from operating in a way that would make this more difficult. Mostly unrelated to the correctness of the article, but this feels like a bad argument. AFAIK, Anthropic/OpenAI/Google are not having issues with their weights being leaked (are they?). Why is it that Meta's model weights a…

We have nationals/citizens of every major US adversary working in those companies with looser security practice than security at local warehouse. Security check before hiring is a joke (mostly checks that resume checks out), laptops can be taken home and internal communication are not segmented on need to know basis. Essentially if China wants weights or source code, it will have hundreds of people to choose from who can provide it.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#334

Post by rty32 »

sheepscreek wrote: post #315
jessechin wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you have a H100 cluster. If you quant it to int4 you might get away with using only 4 H100 GPUs!

Assuming $25k a pop, that’s at least $100k in just the GPUs alone. Throw in their linking technology (NVLink) and cost for the remaining parts, won’t be surprised if you’re looking at $150k for such a cluster. Which is not bad to be honest, for something at this scale. Can anyone share the cost of their pre-built clusters, they’ve recently started selling? (sorry feeling lazy to research atm, I might do that later wh…

You can rent H100 GPUs.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#335

Post by cs702 »

tintor wrote: post #304
cs702 wrote: post #74

> We’re releasing Llama 3.1 405B, the first frontier-level open source AI model, as well as new and improved Llama 3.1 70B and 8B models. Bravo! While I don't agree with Zuck's views and actions on many fronts, on this occasion I think he and the AI folks at Meta deserve our praise and gratitude. With this release, they have brought the cost of pretraining a frontier 400B+ parameter model to ZERO for pretty much ever…

> they have brought the cost of pretraining a frontier 400B+ parameter model to ZERO It is still far from zero.

If the model is already pretrained, there's no need to pretrain it, so the cost of pretraining is zero.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#336

Post by whimsicalism »

avivo wrote: post #289

The FTC also recently put out a statement that is fairly pro-open source: https://www.ftc.gov/policy/advocacy-research/tech-at-ftc/202... I think it's interesting to think about this question of open source, benefits, risk, and even competition, without all of the baggage that Meta brings. I agree with the FTC, that the benefits of open-weight models are significant for competition. The challenge is in distinguishing…

making food that people want to buy is good actually

i am not down with this concept of the chattering class deciding what are good markets and what are bad, unless it is due to broad-based and obvious moral judgements.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#337

Post by SquareWheel »

Palomides wrote: post #125
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it's really hard to do proper Open Source with these LLMs, means we need to change the meaning of Open Source so it fits with these PR releases? Open training data is hard to the point of impracticality. It requires excluding private and proprietary data. Meanwhile, the term "open source" is massively popular. So it will get used. The question is how. Meta et al would love for the choice to be between, on o…

source available is absolutely not the same as open source you are playing very loosely with terms that have specific, widely accepted definitions (e.g. https://opensource.org/osd ) I don't get why you think it would be useful to call LLMs with published weights "open source"

> specific, widely accepted definitions

Realistically, nobody outside of Hacker News commenters have ever cared about the OSD. It's just not how the term is used colloquially.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#338

Post by sandworm101 »

cs702 wrote: post #74

> We’re releasing Llama 3.1 405B, the first frontier-level open source AI model, as well as new and improved Llama 3.1 70B and 8B models. Bravo! While I don't agree with Zuck's views and actions on many fronts, on this occasion I think he and the AI folks at Meta deserve our praise and gratitude. With this release, they have brought the cost of pretraining a frontier 400B+ parameter model to ZERO for pretty much ever…

>> Bravo! While I don't agree with Zuck's views and actions on many fronts, on this occasion I think he and the AI folks at Meta deserve our praise and gratitude.

Nope. Not one bit. Supporting F/OSS when it suits you in one area and then being totally dismissive of it in every other area should not be lauded. How about open sourcing some of FB's VR efforts?

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#340

Post by ricardo81 »

tambourine_man wrote: post #264
cs702 wrote: post #74

> We’re releasing Llama 3.1 405B, the first frontier-level open source AI model, as well as new and improved Llama 3.1 70B and 8B models. Bravo! While I don't agree with Zuck's views and actions on many fronts, on this occasion I think he and the AI folks at Meta deserve our praise and gratitude. With this release, they have brought the cost of pretraining a frontier 400B+ parameter model to ZERO for pretty much ever…

Praising is good. Gratitude is a bit much. They got this big by selling user generated content and private info to the highest bidder. Often through questionable means. Also, the underdog always touts Open Source and standards, so it’s good to remain skeptical when/if tables turn.

>selling user generated content and private info to the highest bidder

Was always their modus operandi, surely. How else would they have survived.

Thanks for returning everyone else;s content and never mind all the content stealing your platform did.

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