One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence • Hacker News Board

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#331

Post by janalsncm » Wed, May 22, 2024, 11:57 PM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #274

janalsncm wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s another American perspective: there are tons of videos of crazy turbulence tossing people around the cabin. I don’t want to get tossed around.

Warning fatigue is a real concern, and requiring people to watch videos on the internet should not be a prerequisite for adequate safety. I've definitely noticed a proliferation of warning notices and signs in the US (and I don't just mean the Californian chemical hazard warnings in the most bizarre/unavoidable locations like a jet bridge), with the really important ones usually reiterated by a human standing next to…

It’s always been an American impulse to resist authority and think for yourself. That is generally admirable. Then at some point the “think for yourself” part got tossed out, and people disobey instructions for the sake of it.

It’s not that hard to follow instructions. There aren’t that many, and almost all flights have the exact same ones. If you don’t want to learn about getting tossed around like a rag doll at 40k feet that’s fine, just do what the crew tells you to do and you’ll be ok.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#332

Post by filleduchaos » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:28 AM UTC

optiomal_isgood wrote: post #298

mayd wrote: post #286

For all the pontificating in this thread about the need to follow safety advice regarding the wearing of seat belts (and bicycle helmets!) at all times, please note the following from the BBC report: > the London-Singapore flight suffered a sudden drop as a meal service was under way. Meal service is probably the single most vulnerable moment to encounter turbulence. How many of the safety-first-at-all-times brigade…

I always eat with the seatbelt fastened. Why do you need to remove it? Considering the reduced leg space these days, the tray table is relatively within reach. Besides, I do a 12h route at least once a year, and yes I always have them on unless I'm stretching my legs or going to the toilet because that's the safety recommendation—not because I like it—I don't get your point.

Yeah I'm a little confused by that myself. It's a lap belt - why on earth would you need to even loosen it to eat? Even in business/first class suites, the lap belt is independent of the shoulder harness and you can wear just the lap belt for most of the flight.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#333

Post by maxlamb » Thu, May 23, 2024, 3:17 AM UTC

darkwater wrote: post #94

Horrible news. Speaking of the physics involved, I was thinking: if it's just free fall, caused by gravity and no air sustaining the wings, this should not happen, right? Some random Quora answer says that it's because during turbulence there is actually air pressing wings down and accelerating them down faster than gravity, and that's why you hit the ceiling. Intuitively that makes sense but, can anyone confirm? Edi…

The downdraft could actually make the plane accelerate downwards faster than free fall (even just for a second or so), hence everything unattached hitting the ceiling

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#334

Post by dude187 » Thu, May 23, 2024, 3:39 AM UTC

Intermernet wrote: post #98

sva_ wrote: post #61

> "So I started bracing for what was happening, and very suddenly there was a very dramatic drop so everyone seated and not wearing seatbelt was launched immediately into the ceiling," 28-year-old student Dzafran Azmir said. > "Some people hit their heads on the baggage cabins overhead and dented it, they hit the places where lights and masks are and broke straight through it." That's why I try to keep my seatbelt on…

I recently flew ANA and they advise all passengers to keep their seatbelts on at all times when seated. It seems like simple advice. I do the same thing when I'm driving. I don't find it uncomfortable in the slightest, even sleeping. Maybe others have a different experience, but turbulence isn't that rare. I've had serious turbulence on many flights. Probably the worst was final approach / landing in Frankfurt with p…

I find sleeping on a plane more comfortable with a seat belt on actually. I hook my thumbs into it and it gives me more support for my hands and arms.

Might not be great for my thumbs in that kind of situation though...

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#335

Post by Arn_Thor » Thu, May 23, 2024, 8:47 AM UTC

Intermernet wrote: post #98

sva_ wrote: post #61

> "So I started bracing for what was happening, and very suddenly there was a very dramatic drop so everyone seated and not wearing seatbelt was launched immediately into the ceiling," 28-year-old student Dzafran Azmir said. > "Some people hit their heads on the baggage cabins overhead and dented it, they hit the places where lights and masks are and broke straight through it." That's why I try to keep my seatbelt on…

I recently flew ANA and they advise all passengers to keep their seatbelts on at all times when seated. It seems like simple advice. I do the same thing when I'm driving. I don't find it uncomfortable in the slightest, even sleeping. Maybe others have a different experience, but turbulence isn't that rare. I've had serious turbulence on many flights. Probably the worst was final approach / landing in Frankfurt with p…

I’ve flown internationally for a decade and it was only around 2018-20 I noticed most airlines reminding you to keep your seat belt fastened. Before that it seemed like the exception, not the rule.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#336

Post by greentxt » Thu, May 23, 2024, 3:37 PM UTC

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #250

greentxt wrote: post #214

One turbulence death out of millions and people here are like, “see, you die if you don’t keep your seatbelt fastened at all times!” Tbh, I do try to keep mine fastened, but generally don’t go anywhere, so as to maximize my safety.

73 years old, and died of a heart attack. I don't see that as 'turbulence death'.

"Died with turbulance."

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#337

Post by RestlessMind » Thu, May 23, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

pfannkuchen wrote: post #218

RestlessMind wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that seems very Japanese in a weird way - they might be trusting themselves and everyone else to follow rules precisely, thus avoiding all the accidents and obviating the need for seatbelts.

Is driving actually kind of easy in Japan for this reason? I’ve never had a car while there. It’s wild how different Japan and China are despite being neighbors. I can’t think of a European neighbor pair that is so different.

When I visited, Austria-Hungary were very different. So were Germany-Poland. And let's not even talk about Finland-Russia.

I mean, Europe had an iron curtain for decades and that shows at the boundaries.

Re: One dead as London-Singapore flight hit by turbulence

#338

Post by xenadu02 » Tue, May 28, 2024, 9:05 PM UTC

darkwater wrote: post #299

xenadu02 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously, but then the boat and all the objects within it would be experiencing the same gravity acceleration, immediately, at the same time. That is not correct. The airplane experiences this uniformly because the wings transmit the forces to the fuselage. But the contents of the aircraft follow Sir Issac Newton and want to continue their previous motion. If the aircraft experiences high enough negative G then an…

Still not convinced. The plane is both carrying you tangentially to the Earth surface (to simplify) and sustaining you against gravity. If a turbulence just makes disappear the sustain against gravity, the wings, the fuselage and everything inside will start free-falling at the same time, effectively being a reduced gravity system. This is what happens in the ISS and there is actually a NASA aircraft (Vomit Comet [1]…

We covered this in the other thread but to give a simple summary:

It is not purely a reduction in lift causing the aircraft to begin free falling.

Different air masses can move in different directions, including downwards or in a circular motion. When the velocity of the air is high enough it can easily push the airplane down faster than free-fall otherwise would.