Live data from Hacker News

Meta Llama 3

llama.meta.com

331–340 of 965 posts

Re: Meta Llama 3

#331

I just want to express how grateful I am that Zuck and Yann and the rest of the Meta team have adopted an open approach and are sharing the model weights, the tokenizer, information about the training data, etc. They, more than anyone else, are responsible for the explosion of open research and improvement that has happened with things like llama.cpp that now allow you to run quite decent models locally on consumer h…

That's coz he is a founder CEO. Those guys are built different. It's rare for the careerist MBA types to match their passion or sincerity.

There are many things I can criticize Zuck for but lack of sincerity for the mission is not one of them.

Re: Meta Llama 3

#332

I was curious how the numbers compare to GPT-4 in the paid ChatGPT Plus, since they don't compare directly themselves. Llama 3 8B Llama 3 70B GPT-4 MMLU 68.4 82.0 86.5 GPQA 34.2 39.5 49.1 MATH 30.0 50.4 72.2 HumanEval 62.2 81.7 87.6 DROP 58.4 79.7 85.4 Note that the free version of ChatGPT that most people use is based on GPT-3.5 which is much worse than GPT-4. I haven't found comprehensive eval numbers for the lates…

I was particularly excited for the high HumanEval score, and this is before the 400B model and the CodeLlama tune!

I just added Llama 3 70B to our coding copilot https://www.double.bot if anyone wants to try it for coding within their IDE

Re: Meta Llama 3

#333
post #142

Public benchmarks are broadly indicative, but devs really should run custom benchmarks on their own use cases. Replicate created a Llama 3 API [0] very quickly. This can be used to run simple benchmarks with promptfoo [1] comparing Llama 3 vs Mixtral, GPT, Claude, and others: prompts: - 'Answer this programming question concisely: {{ask}}' providers: - replicate:meta/meta-llama-3-8b-instruct - replicate:meta/meta-lla…

We had some issues with the problems with the vocab (showing "assistant" at the end of responses), but it should be working now.

ollama run llama3

We're pushing the various quantizations and the text/70b models.

Re: Meta Llama 3

#334
Notes from Andrej Karpathy (https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1781028605709234613)

Releasing 8B and 70B (both base and finetuned) models, strong-performing in their model class (but we'll see when the rankings come in @ @lmsysorg :)) 400B is still training, but already encroaching GPT-4 territory (e.g. 84.8 MMLU vs. 86.5 4Turbo).

Tokenizer: number of tokens was 4X'd from 32K (Llama 2) -> 128K (Llama 3). With more tokens you can compress sequences more in length, cites 15% fewer tokens, and see better downstream performance.

Architecture: no major changes from the Llama 2. In Llama 2 only the bigger models used Grouped Query Attention (GQA), but now all models do, including the smallest 8B model. This is a parameter sharing scheme for the keys/values in the Attention, which reduces the size of the KV cache during inference. This is a good, welcome, complexity reducing fix and optimization.

Sequence length: the maximum number of tokens in the context window was bumped up to 8192 from 4096 (Llama 2) and 2048 (Llama 1). This bump is welcome, but quite small w.r.t. modern standards (e.g. GPT-4 is 128K) and I think many people were hoping for more on this axis. May come as a finetune later (?).

Training data. Llama 2 was trained on 2 trillion tokens, Llama 3 was bumped to 15T training dataset, including a lot of attention that went to quality, 4X more code tokens, and 5% non-en tokens over 30 languages. (5% is fairly low w.r.t. non-en:en mix, so certainly this is a mostly English model, but it's quite nice that it is > 0).

Scaling laws. Very notably, 15T is a very very large dataset to train with for a model as "small" as 8B parameters, and this is not normally done and is new and very welcome. The Chinchilla "compute optimal" point for an 8B model would be train it for ~200B tokens. (if you were only interested to get the most "bang-for-the-buck" w.r.t. model performance at that size). So this is training ~75X beyond that point, which is unusual but personally, I think extremely welcome. Because we all get a very capable model that is very small, easy to work with and inference. Meta mentions that even at this point, the model doesn't seem to be "converging" in a standard sense. In other words, the LLMs we work with all the time are significantly undertrained by a factor of maybe 100-1000X or more, nowhere near their point of convergence. Actually, I really hope people carry forward the trend and start training and releasing even more long-trained, even smaller models.

Systems. Llama 3 is cited as trained with 16K GPUs at observed throughput of 400 TFLOPS. It's not mentioned but I'm assuming these are H100s at fp16, which clock in at 1,979 TFLOPS in NVIDIA marketing materials. But we all know their tiny asterisk (*with sparsity) is doing a lot of work, and really you want to divide this number by 2 to get the real TFLOPS of ~990. Why is sparsity counting as FLOPS? Anyway, focus Andrej. So 400/990 ~= 40% utilization, not too bad at all across that many GPUs! A lot of really solid engineering is required to get here at that scale.

TLDR: Super welcome, Llama 3 is a very capable looking model release from Meta. Sticking to fundamentals, spending a lot of quality time on solid systems and data work, exploring the limits of long-training models. Also very excited for the 400B model, which could be the first GPT-4 grade open source release. I think many people will ask for more context length.

Personal ask: I think I'm not alone to say that I'd also love much smaller models than 8B, for educational work, and for (unit) testing, and maybe for embedded applications etc. Ideally at ~100M and ~1B scale.

Talk to it at https://meta.ai Integration with https://github.com/pytorch/torchtune

Re: Meta Llama 3

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing that he's only 39 years old and seems more energetic than ever to run his company. Having a passionate founder is, imo, a big advantage for Meta compared to other big tech companies.

Love how everyone is romanticizing his engineering mindset. But have we already forgotten that he was even more passionate about the metaverse which, as far as I can tell, was a 50B failure?

What's wrong with someone playing with millennia equivalent of millions of human life times worth of income like a disposable toy? /s

Re: Meta Llama 3

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing that he's only 39 years old and seems more energetic than ever to run his company. Having a passionate founder is, imo, a big advantage for Meta compared to other big tech companies.

Love how everyone is romanticizing his engineering mindset. But have we already forgotten that he was even more passionate about the metaverse which, as far as I can tell, was a 50B failure?

Having an engineering mindset is not the same as never making mistakes (or never being too early to the market). The only way you won’t make those mistakes and keep a perfect record is if you never do anything major or step out of the comfort zone.

If Apple didn’t try and fail with Newton[0] (which was too early to the market for many reasons, both tech-related and not), we might’ve not had iPhone today. The engineering mindset would be to analyze how and why it happened the way it did, assess whether you can address those issues well, decide whether to proceed again or not (and how), and then execute. Obsessing over a perfect track record is the opposite of the engineering mindset imo.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton

Re: Meta Llama 3

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing that he's only 39 years old and seems more energetic than ever to run his company. Having a passionate founder is, imo, a big advantage for Meta compared to other big tech companies.

Love how everyone is romanticizing his engineering mindset. But have we already forgotten that he was even more passionate about the metaverse which, as far as I can tell, was a 50B failure?

I think that part of his bet is that AI is a key component of getting the metaverse to take off. E.g. generating content for the metaverse via AI

Re: Meta Llama 3

#338
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the still training 400B: Llama 3 GPT 4(Published) BBH 85.3 83.1 MMLU 86.1 86.4 DROP 83.5 80.9 GSM8K 94.1 92.0 MATH 57.8 52.9 HumEv 84.1 74.4 Although it should be noted that the API numbers were generally better than published numbers for GPT4. [1]: https://deepmind.google/technologies/gemini/

Which specific GPT-4 model is this? gpt-4-0613? gpt-4-0125-preview?

This is mostly from technical report from OpenAI[1]. API performs better as I said in my previous comment. API models(0613/0125 etc.) also uses user data for training which could leak the benchmark data.

[1]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.08774.pdf

Re: Meta Llama 3

#339
post #4

They've got a console for it as well, https://www.meta.ai/ And announcing a lot of integration across the Meta product suite, https://about.fb.com/news/2024/04/meta-ai-assistant-built-wi... Neglected to include comparisons against GPT-4-Turbo or Claude Opus, so I guess it's far from being a frontier model. We'll see how it fares in the LLM Arena.

Also added Llama 3 70B to our coding copilot https://www.double.bot if anyone wants to try it for coding within their IDE and not just chat in the console

Re: Meta Llama 3

#340
post #267

I'm a big fan of various AI companies taking different approaches. OpenAI keeping it close to their hearts but have great developer apis. Meta and Mistral going open weights + open code. Anthropic and Claude doing their thing. Competition is a beautiful thing. I am half excited and half scared that AGI is our generation's space war. I hope we can solve the big human problems, instead of more scammy ads and videos. So…

>OpenAI keeping it close to their hearts but have great developer apis

Interesting. Aren't all the APIs basically the same? Provide a prompt, get a response.

I'm surprised there's room for some APIs to be significantly better than others, but then I've only used the openai one.

Post reply on HN