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The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

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Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#331

Post by obscurette »

georgeburdell wrote: post #209
jajko wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Switzerland, at least for the french part, most of the doctors are not Swiss anymore. It literally became white collar immigrant job. Wife is one of those and sees the problem very clearly due to speaking about this with both (those few) swiss colleagues and the rest - its simply not attractive career path for locals, too much suffering and risk for relatively little reward. Those bright enough go to law, IT and s…

Potentially controversial opinion, but perhaps it is exactly the immigrants who are enabling the dysfunction to continue? I imagine tougher decisions would have been made to balance doctor quality of life with patient outcomes without immigrants taking whatever abuse the current system throws at them.

While somewhat rudely expressed, but in principle I'd agree. There are people who call it modern day imperialism – it's the draining high performant brains from other countries what allows western societies to keep doing a lot of things.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#332

Post by jetbooster »

tim333 wrote: post #144
bsdz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps there's a little of that going on here in the UK. Doctors can certainly command a decent salary especially if they specialise, run private clinics etc. That said, I feel it's probably more complicated than that. Each place costs approx £230k (only £65k paid by student by way of loans). This means increasing supply is a costly endeavour. The government also says that they wish to maintain teaching and learning…

Of course the UK government can avoid the training cost by hiring foreigners. From my personal experience maybe half the NHS doctors are from overseas.

Thank goodness we didn't make some insane political move that makes that harder then!

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#333

Post by TeMPOraL »

patricius wrote: post #293
ketzo wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s extremely beneficial to the people who are already doctors (dramatically increases salary, prestige, power), and that is a powerful group in most societies.

I think it comes down to, if you read the history of the American Medical Association, that some doctors simply didn’t like a free market pushing down prices for their services.

Yeah, but why is the same situation present, and the same explanation given, in Poland, EU? Or, seeing from other comments, plenty other countries around the world?

I'm seconding 'viraptor here - this isn't a good enough explanation. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and doesn't mesh well with day-to-day experience. Individual doctors I know seem to have very little influence over anything, and they're first in line to the protests about working conditions and pay.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#334

Post by TeMPOraL »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #323
rr808 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its similar worldwide. Like I said my brother quit. Its also true that IT people are ridiculously overpaid. Both problems will inevitably revert to the mean.

Hey, there is a reason you can use Internet and this is us :) It is not that IT is overpaid, it is that doctors are underpaid - at least in France. We are the world champions of strikes and yet, somehow, doctors rarely go on strike. I do not know why. They also know where they are going, it is not like they discover the world of medicine after 8 or 10 years. I am happy that they are people who want to help others, bu…

> Nobody will give them that if they do not protest.

Poland chiming in. Nobody will give them that even when they go out and protest.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#335

Post by alfiedotwtf »

sslayer wrote: post #274
ketzo wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s extremely beneficial to the people who are already doctors (dramatically increases salary, prestige, power), and that is a powerful group in most societies.

Also, being a coveted occupation ensures that there will always be a pool of people fighting for it. Scarcity drives demand.

Not always.

If I sell garden gnomes wearing knitted hats, but I only make three a year and sell to only people who drive yellow cars, I doubt I could earn a decent living off this

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#336

Post by throwaway2037 »

rqtwteye wrote: post #292
chmod600 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the article is about burnout. Surely that can't be great for existing doctors, either?

They choose more money over avoiding burnout.

You took the words right out of my mouth! Money is the elephant in the room here. Why doesn't the author quit surgery and start a small GP clinic? Oh, only half the pay? I see similar behaviour in law firms and investment banking.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#337

Post by throwaway2037 »

rr808 wrote: post #125
bsdz wrote: post #30

Something I've never quite understood is why, in the UK, we cap the number of medical students per year. I've known very bright people who aspired to be doctors but had their applications turned down only to go on to do phds and become scientists instead. I'd rather have twice as many doctors who work sensible hours rather than the status quo burn out. Looks like there are calls to change this. https://commonslibrary…

An associated problem is that bright people from rural or poor areas who are really passionate about being a doctor dont get the right grades to get in. Middle class kids in cities get in because its a good career but dont really like it that much and definitely dont want to work outside their city. My brother worked as a doctor until his thirties then quit, such a waste of training.

Why did he quit? Burnout? And what career did he switch to?

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#338

Post by anovikov »

ketzo wrote: post #268
Solvency wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but.. why?

It’s extremely beneficial to the people who are already doctors (dramatically increases salary, prestige, power), and that is a powerful group in most societies.

In the U.S., sure. But in the UK status of a doctor is akin to that of a schoolteacher. Totally not a highly sought-after, profitable career like it is in the U.S.

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#339

Post by huytersd »

billfruit wrote: post #302
throwaway20222 wrote: post #286

One of my friends I grew up with was “that kid;” smartest in the community, funny, played a mean guitar. Everyone loved him. Top of class. Harvard. Harvard med. Top placement for residency. Something happened during that time and he killed himself. It was absolutely unexpected from all of his friends. Shocking to say the least. Apparently it turned out to be stress from work, his hours, his fear of failing. Who will…

Can't medical doctors have duty time limits like aircrews. Wouldn't that alleviate some of the overwork.

Can’t IT workers?

Re: The darker side of being a doctor (2017)

#340

Post by throwaway2037 »

jajko wrote: post #135
rr808 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An associated problem is that bright people from rural or poor areas who are really passionate about being a doctor dont get the right grades to get in. Middle class kids in cities get in because its a good career but dont really like it that much and definitely dont want to work outside their city. My brother worked as a doctor until his thirties then quit, such a waste of training.

In Switzerland, at least for the french part, most of the doctors are not Swiss anymore. It literally became white collar immigrant job. Wife is one of those and sees the problem very clearly due to speaking about this with both (those few) swiss colleagues and the rest - its simply not attractive career path for locals, too much suffering and risk for relatively little reward. Those bright enough go to law, IT and s…

    > too much suffering and risk for relatively little reward.
Is the pay as high as the US? Specialist doctors have crazy high salaries in the US.
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