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School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

nytimes.com

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Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#331

Post by fn-mote »

Uehreka wrote: post #271
ballenf wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before covid we'd ask our kids what they did and we'd get the usual super brief explanation but would assume that kids just didn't want to go into detail or didn't remember. After covid, we realized that their answer was closer to the truth than all the learning we imagined in our heads. To some degree elementary school has always been a large part daycare and small part teaching. But the one big change from my exper…

> To some degree elementary school has always been a large part daycare and small part teaching. This was definitely a fashionable thing to say last decade. But in a post-Covid world where we’ve seen meaningful deficits in skills as a result of disruptions to in-person elementary school attendance, I think we should re-evaluate this prior. It seems evident that there’s a lot more going on in school than just babysitt…

THIS!

Why did missing school under Covid have such bad outcomes?

I don't know what happens in school (in person), but it must have been something or you wouldn't have seen such a dramatic change.

To be specific: there was a big decrease in resilience in the face of difficulties (in addition to knowledge).

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#333

Post by analognoise »

troyvit wrote: post #310
elboru wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Have you been around kids post COVID? Winters after the pandemic have been a nightmare for many parents. My nephews have basically been "sick" the whole winter (getting sick, staying home, recovering, going back to school, getting a new virus, repeat).

It's been the same for my kids. Another thing I've noticed is that post-covid they've come home from school with more stories of the teachers just putting on videos and having the kids watch that, or else they just read crap on their tablets. What I'm saying is, it seems like education has also changed post-covid. It's like the teachers are still remote-teaching even though everybody's in the classroom. This is publi…

I’ve noticed that too! So many videos. “We watched a movie today” - what?

Is there some catalog of how many videos and things are watched during school hours, because I never remember that as a kid. Yes it would have been a VCR rolled out and all that, but if I wanted them to just watch a movie I could do that from home. So weird.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#334

Post by nec4b »

ryandrake wrote: post #265
kube-system wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chronic absence is typically defined as missing at least 10 percent of the school year, or about 18 days, for any reason. I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Decades ago when I was in public school, the kids who were chronically absent like this were the ones who clearly had some behavioral issues or problems at home. The linked study also demonstrates that the rates are…

> I think the real issue here is that a subset of people simply have fewer fucks to give about school, and that has been accelerated by the distance and space that COVID created between students/parents and school. Some parents are even giving negative-fucks about school, in other words being actively against public education, teachers, and so on. I know of Facebook groups where parents share tips on how to maximize…

[flagged]

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#335

Post by fn-mote »

bombcar wrote: post #221
from-nibly wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Keep your kids home if they are sick. An screw every parent who thinks this way. My family got sick 6 times in the last 12 weeks because of this nonsense. If your kid is sick it's your fault if other kids catch what they have. I dont care if it's "just the sniffles" It causes so much inconveniece for my family.

Unfortunately even if you have a "zero sniffles and max masking" policy schools are just a breeding ground for germ transmission. You're usually "infectious" before you're symptomatic, so it spreads like wildfire anyway. School sicknesses are so common that it might almost be argued that the point of public education is to make sure everyone is exposed to as many diseases as possible.

I completely disagree with this defeatist attitude, and I do not think it is supported by evidence.

Regularly washing your hands reduces spread of the flu by 30%. (Old study, not going to find it.)

I will believe anti-disease spread measures are effective until they are proven otherwise.

> You're usually "infectious" before you're symptomatic

This trait of Covid was what made it unusual. For the flu, the most infectious period days 1-3 with symptoms. ("Period of Contagiousness" in [1]... of course there are exceptions.)

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/keyfacts.htm

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#336

Post by nec4b »

williamcotton wrote: post #267
usea wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just another way of saying you're under-staffed so owners can capture more of the value of your labor. It's neither virtuous nor effective.

No, it isn’t. I work side-by-side the CEO and as a colleague and he works more hours than anyone else. He’s a great person and a friend. We have multiple people in a company of about 15 who have worked there for over 20 years. Who are you working for?

Maybe for somebody who doesn't make him go to the office when sick?

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#337

Post by asielen »

williamcotton wrote: post #87
candiddevmike wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, you get 10 days of unexcused absence per year before parents and kids start receiving fines and possibly a referral to CPS. That number is way too small IMO, and it forces folks to go to the doctor constantly for getting small illnesses excused (school policies are 24 hours without a fever, but they don't take temperatures, it's honor based...), since you want to keep those 10 days for an actual vacation.

Why would you take your kids on a vacation during school? There are plenty of breaks during the year including all of summer.

I think the answers you are getting to your question are reflective of someone we are seeing across many aspects of society. The division between three "haves" and the "have nots".

If course taking a kid out of school for once in a life time events should be okay, even applauded. And children who are excelling should be allowed to take that trip to Europe during school. They will learn more there than in a class room.

BUT, those excuses hinge in good academics and support at home.

I heard someone say once that at the end of the day, everyone is home schooled. If students are not raised in an environment that values education, it really doesn't matter if they are going to school everyday. In my opinion as a dad of two young kids, attendance is a symptom not a cause.

But penalizing attendance issues is a lot easier that fixing the core issues which I think are mostly economic and mental health related.

I and many of my peers grew up with one stay at home parent who volunteered at my school occasionally and engaged with my teachers. Now my wife and I both have to work to afford the lifestyle I had growing up. My kids are going to have to be in after school programs which are basically just babysitting even if I am in a position to afford good mentoring.

Cell phones and social media are also causing issues with older and younger students. Peer pressure is at an all time high and academic pressure is not far behind.

We are putting so much stress on these kids, when they are just kids. They need to explore their world, get their hands dirty and be curious. Not take yet another standardized test. American society is not kind to children.

Back to it being a haves and haves not issues. As someone with a sizable household income. I absolutely afford to supplement my children's education with museum memberships and trips to see events like the eclipse and frankly also mental health support. I am lucky to have a job that I can take time off anytime I want. But this is the bubble I am in of tech workers. The vast majority of Americans cannot do that. This divide is just going to continue to widen the gap.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#338

Post by MuffinFlavored »

linuxftw wrote: post #312
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would I have gone if I wasn't _required_ to? Would you every worry about doing ok academically but falling behind socially?

Have you talked to children that attend public school today? School is not helping them socially whatsoever.

Do I think there has been an increase percentage wise in the amount (and in the awareness) of teenagers who don't like various aspects or high school (or children who don't like elementary/middle school)? 100%

But I went to public school not too long ago. High school, about 4,000 people. Really diverse culturally.

I think you can make the argument that you had "the majority" (50.1%, 2k+ teenagers) who "did well/liked it" overall. Did they dislike it for one reason or another? Sure. But I don't think 49.9% were bullied (social media or not). I would say it's a smaller minority/more "fringe".

Not to say that if it's 20% of children it isn't a very large problem. But... if 80% of people 'can and do' make it out + benefit from it + find a way to enjoy it... how come it works for them and not others?

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#339

Post by bombcar »

fn-mote wrote: post #335
bombcar wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately even if you have a "zero sniffles and max masking" policy schools are just a breeding ground for germ transmission. You're usually "infectious" before you're symptomatic, so it spreads like wildfire anyway. School sicknesses are so common that it might almost be argued that the point of public education is to make sure everyone is exposed to as many diseases as possible.

I completely disagree with this defeatist attitude, and I do not think it is supported by evidence. Regularly washing your hands reduces spread of the flu by 30%. (Old study, not going to find it.) I will believe anti-disease spread measures are effective until they are proven otherwise. > You're usually "infectious" before you're symptomatic This trait of Covid was what made it unusual . For the flu, the most infect…

Sure, and you should take reasonable precautions (including not penalizing "sick days" in various ways), but if kids go to school they're going to get sick.

Re: School absences have ‘exploded’ almost everywhere

#340

Post by ptero »

alt227 wrote: post #325
ptero wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I envy you! Both of my kids had unhealthy amount of high school homework. I know many parents whose kids stayed up until 1-2am at least once a week. We expressed strong opinions to our kids that sleep is way more important than getting an extra grade bump, but many kids still trade sleep for a better grade.

Who are these kids? I have never met a child who would avoid sleep and stay up half the night to do homework. /slight sarcasm.

Do you have kids? If so, what ages?

US schools have changed, a lot, in the last 30 years. Many schools now are pressure cookers on both the teachers and peer levels. So some kids stay up very late and some go on antidepressants. On the other side are schools where no one cares about academics, and the bar for good grades is no mischief. Which is also not a great school for any kid.

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