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Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

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Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#331

Post by toss1 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #274
tristor wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Liberal principle requires you to employ and inform your enemies who are actively engaging in espionage? I didn't say anything about Chinese /ethnicity/, only nationality. There are millions of ethnically Chinese people around the world who are not Chinese nationals and are not bound by the same legal framework.

> employ and inform your enemies This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. It's the literal definition of prejudice . Very illiberal. Mind you, I am not claiming that you have to be liberal. I just want honesty and consistency. If we all oppose China because they threaten liberty, then we must protect liberty. But if you oppose China just because it's a pissing contest between superpower…

You say "it's not my problem"

But you do not live there, you live in the West.

Just because the problem is diffuse and distant for you now, does not mean it is not your problem. If we all fail to treat it as the problem, it will become concentrated and local here also. (but sure, right now, it's more convenient to ignore it and party)

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#332

Post by Mr-Frog »

akira2501 wrote: post #326
archagon wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the stated policy of the Chinese government that /all/ Chinese nationals are responsible to participate in, aid, and abet Chinese intelligence efforts > If you hire Chinese nationals in your tech company, you can be assured they are committing espionage One does not follow the other. Prejudice. I have a dual citizenship, and my other government says all sorts of things about my supposed allegiances that I vehe…

> Prejudice Yes. What other form of insurance could I use here? > I have a dual citizenship, [...] I am not my governments’ property. No one is the property of their government but you have openly decided to split your allegiances. Anyways, you can only have this dual citizenship because both of these governments have decided to allow it, and that could change tomorrow.

> you have openly decided to split your allegiances

Many people are born in the USA inherited dual citizenship. I personally know American-born Iranian and Russian citizens that would like to renounce their citizenship (since it negatively impacts their job opportunities in cleared engineering work) but are not able to do to current global political situations.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#334

Post by pfannkuchen »

riku_iki wrote: post #322
billy99k wrote: post #128

This doesn't surprise me. I knew someone that intentionally graduated with a specific major, so they could get a job in that industry and send trade secrets/IP back to China. The purpose was to create a competing company. It didn't work out for them that well. They couldn't last more than 6 months at any one company and I think eventually gave up and went back home.

> get a job in that industry and send trade secrets so, is there a clear line between: steal trade secret, and applied learned experience in new company the way everyone does?

If they are intentionally finding information that is outside the scope of their own role and then exporting the information itself as opposed to actually learning it then that would be clearly stealing trade secrets. Of course there are some lesser actions that would be in a gray area.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#336

Post by Cookingboy »

tristor wrote: post #289
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employ and inform your enemies This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. It's the literal definition of prejudice . Very illiberal. Mind you, I am not claiming that you have to be liberal. I just want honesty and consistency. If we all oppose China because they threaten liberty, then we must protect liberty. But if you oppose China just because it's a pissing contest between superpower…

> This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. Not where someone is born, but whom they owe allegiance to. If you do not discriminate based on someone's allegiances, then on what basis would you expect it to be appropriate to discriminate? The idea that all discrimination is immoral or unethical is not only suspect, it's clearly foolhardy. China is an enemy to everyone who is not China, the…

Your entire argument is based off the propagandized idea that "China is our mortal enemy".

Should we cut off all tourism/business travel between China and the Wests? Cease all commercial activities? Declare war? Wait we should ask China to close the 9000 Starbucks in their country first.

Your opinion, while fairly popular amongst propagandized Americans, is not supported by hard facts..

And your argument of "all Chinese nationals could be spies means all Chinese nationals are working as spies" is absolutely illogical.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#337

Post by archagon »

akira2501 wrote: post #326
archagon wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the stated policy of the Chinese government that /all/ Chinese nationals are responsible to participate in, aid, and abet Chinese intelligence efforts > If you hire Chinese nationals in your tech company, you can be assured they are committing espionage One does not follow the other. Prejudice. I have a dual citizenship, and my other government says all sorts of things about my supposed allegiances that I vehe…

> Prejudice Yes. What other form of insurance could I use here? > I have a dual citizenship, [...] I am not my governments’ property. No one is the property of their government but you have openly decided to split your allegiances. Anyways, you can only have this dual citizenship because both of these governments have decided to allow it, and that could change tomorrow.

I retain my second citizenship in hope of a brighter future, not out of any sense of duty to my country.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#338

Post by tivert »

xeonmc wrote: post #324
lfmunoz4 wrote: post #319

Wonder if any Americans go to Chinese tech companies to steal secrets or if there is just nothing there to steal.

The secrets are which secrets had been stolen.

> The secrets are which secrets had been stolen.

The Chinese probably have secrets worth stealing about solar panel production. They've pretty much driven everyone else out of business.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#340

Post by dylan604 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #334
riku_iki wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> get a job in that industry and send trade secrets so, is there a clear line between: steal trade secret, and applied learned experience in new company the way everyone does?

If they are intentionally finding information that is outside the scope of their own role and then exporting the information itself as opposed to actually learning it then that would be clearly stealing trade secrets. Of course there are some lesser actions that would be in a gray area.

> intentionally finding information that is outside the scope of their own role

some call that a positive initiative. cross training between departments or some such corp speak is used so people can "fill in" or just have a better understanding of the other departments so you can possibly work better with each other or come up with novel solutions for someone else.

companies that silo everyone off and prevent open discussion between groups are horrible places to work. ask Oppenheimer.

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