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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#331

Post by bombcar »

giobox wrote: post #292
bluGill wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All modern furnaces I've seen take #2 - use air from outside. Despite that they can get to 99% efficient. It doesn't take much energy to heat up that cold air.

My experience in the US at least is that its not uncommon for the furnace air intake to draw air from inside the house (my last two homes in PNW as one example).

You could get high efficiency with a furnace that uses inside air, but they’re basically no longer installed.

20 years ago quite common.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#332

Post by bombcar »

dahinds wrote: post #274
exe34 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason heat pumps use electricity? I would have thought the same approach would work with gas - you only need to burn a fraction of the gas to drive the "fridge" backwards?

Gas fired heat pumps do exist, they're called absorption heat pumps. https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/absorption-heat-pumps

This is how you can have propane powered refrigerators.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#333

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

gnicholas wrote: post #243
bagels wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

> stop the attacks on solar installation I've not heard of any attacks, just reductions in subsidies (tax credits, net metering). Can you share what you're referring to?

> > stop the attacks on solar installation

> I've not heard of any attacks, just reductions in subsidies. Can you share what you're referring to?

I do appreciate a softball.

https://duckduckgo.com/?va=c&t=he&q=political+attacks+on+sol...

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#334

Post by demondemidi »

Fuut wrote: post #180
demondemidi wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pumps need to come with an electric heater because pumps stop working below 30 deg F.

This is just not true at all. Why do you even respond if you don't know enough about heat pumps?

Oh, sorry, I guess I was brainwashed by the "anti heat pump mafia". I had this conversation with three HVAC installers but according to this thread any HVAC installer that speaks ill of heatpumps is old and stupid. Recently, I stayed at an AirBNB recently that had a heatpump and the temps dropped during the deep freeze and it was running 100% of the time and failing. The AirBNB owner said it was brand new and I would be responsible for excessive electricity use. They didn't charge me. Based on this, I am sooo glad I replaced my dead furnace with gas three years ago and steered clear of heat pumps.

But do go on about how I don't know enough.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#335

Post by zbrozek »

burkaman wrote: post #166
floatrock wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Napkin math: My crossover EV gets 2.5-3.5 mi/kWh. Call it 3. / $0.2/kWh = 15 mi/$ Avg fuel economy in US ~ 25mpg. At $3.50/gal that's 7 mi/$ So at 20c/kWh, your dollar goes roughly twice as far on electric. California has been seeing brutal rates, though -- 40c/kWh not uncommon. Californians can play games with Time-of-Use rates (charge at night), get onto EV-specific rates, be on a CCA which tend to not have the try…

Gas in California is $4.50+ at the moment.

3.78 at Mathilda and Maude in Sunnyvale

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#336

Post by ikiris »

tilwidnk wrote: post #289
readingnews wrote: post #86

I just replaced a furnace... everyone I called for a quote would not touch a heat pump with a 20foot pole, or they wanted prices that were 2X what a separate furnace and AC would cost to install. It was very strange. This is the second home where I had this experience.. basically, they really did not want to install it. I ended up going with gas as no local person would install/warranty a heat pump, or, it was priced…

We've owned three homes, our first one had a heat pump. In Virginia. It generally sucked. It wasn't as good as real A/C in the summer and wasn't as good as gas or electric heat in the winter. I hope to never end up in a place that uses a heat pump.

... what do you think real ac is?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#337

Post by Dowwie »

ecshafer wrote: post #173
Dowwie wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where are you located? I was quoted 14k to replace a gas furnace for a single family in NJ

Unless that's a massive furnace that's robbery. In philly I replaced my furnace for $6k 2 years ago.

Got two quotes thus far and they're in the same ballpark. I asked for quotes in December 2023, 2 months ago. Bergen County, NJ.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#338

Post by ikiris »

nostromo wrote: post #114

I have mixed feelings about our heat pump system. Yes, it's efficient. But it breaks about once every other year. Last winter the compressor circuit board malfunctioned and cost $5k to fix. Two years ago it was another issue entirely. All of our savings have been lost to service calls. I'm not super price sensitive, but it's still a pain when the heat goes out in the middle of winter and all the service techs are boo…

Sounds like you got seriously taken advantage of by the contractors you've been using.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#339

Post by [deleted] »

gregwebs wrote: post #262
bagels wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

There are second order effects from natural gas use in an actual furnace that aren't taken into account in price of energy comparisons. A furnace has to either 1) exhaust out air initially drawn from the house which must be replaced by cold outdoor air coming into the house (this requires more heating of the house) 2) take in fresh cold air for combustion and exhaust that (which requires extra energy to heat up the c…

[deleted]

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#340

Post by FullyFunctional »

brewdad wrote: post #177
widdakay wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PGE goes up to 66c/kwh during peak now and in San Diego I think is >70c/kwh. Off peak base is 34c/kwh for PG&E. Gas is $4.5-$5/gal so break even I think ends up being near 50mpg ish for a 300wh/mi EV.

I'm not in CA, so genuinely curious. When you quote 66 cents/kwh is that the marginal rate for an addition kwh or is that averaging in fixed costs? I pay about $20/mo just to have an active service line to my house, even if I were to shut off the breaker and not use any power. But my marginal rate is about 18 cents/kwh. I would call my rate 18 cents but not sure if we are doing an apples to apples comparison.

I find my (NorCal) PG&E bill extremely (and deliberately?) inscrutable, but for the most recent statement, the Off-peak net price was $0.427/kWh and $0.466/kWh on-peak.
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