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Write code for the web

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Re: Write code for the web

#331

Post by jwells89 »

auggierose wrote: post #330
jwells89 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we’ve just been writing very different types of software but as noted earlier, it’s been very unusual for there to not be built in or third party solutions to problems I’ve encountered in UIKit/AppKit. The ceremony involved seems pretty minimal to me considering the trouble saved. It’s a relatively small front loaded cost that precludes problems further down the line. As for icons there’s a bunch of shell scrip…

Sure, you can streamline the process of icon creation. The point is that Apple often sets up things in a "simplified" way which is not really simpler, just more annoying. There are no "normal" DPI displays in Apple's ecosystem anymore, so one SVG should always be fine in many cases. Again, my main point is that coding Apple apps just takes too much time and ceremony compared to what you get out of it (an app that onl…

There’s plenty of people in the Apple ecosystem that still use normal-DPI monitors. 2560x1440 27” monitors are very commonly used with Macs for example, and it’s not unusual for iOS devices to get hooked up to 1080p TVs.

I’d say the investment is also worth it for those who don’t like developing lowest common denominator apps.

Re: Write code for the web

#332

Post by auggierose »

jwells89 wrote: post #331
auggierose wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can streamline the process of icon creation. The point is that Apple often sets up things in a "simplified" way which is not really simpler, just more annoying. There are no "normal" DPI displays in Apple's ecosystem anymore, so one SVG should always be fine in many cases. Again, my main point is that coding Apple apps just takes too much time and ceremony compared to what you get out of it (an app that onl…

There’s plenty of people in the Apple ecosystem that still use normal-DPI monitors. 2560x1440 27” monitors are very commonly used with Macs for example, and it’s not unusual for iOS devices to get hooked up to 1080p TVs. I’d say the investment is also worth it for those who don’t like developing lowest common denominator apps.

> I’d say the investment is also worth it for those who don’t like developing lowest common denominator apps.

If I look at Electron, that lowest common denominator is pretty high. I'd argue that if you put the same effort into an Electron app that you have to put into an Apple app, you get a much better Electron app compared to the Apple app. And you can run it on Linux and Windows.

So, unless there is something essential for your app you cannot do in Electron, not liking the lowest common denominator still fits into the resource blowing category. Hell, blowing resources can sure be fun!

Re: Write code for the web

#333

Post by dtagames »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #133
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is because Apple is a hardware company, that uses software to attract consumers. While Microsoft is a software company, that uses hardware to attract consumers.

Apple is a vertically integrated company. They offer you (in theory) everything you need for computing

Except cloud services for business, which are increasingly vital. And without AI, also a big deal now.

Re: Write code for the web

#334

Post by mardifoufs »

rubicon33 wrote: post #191
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #15

Early on, I made the choice to not to invest in learning native mobile development. I focused all my limited time on the web, and I think that, for once, I made the right choice. Today, one can build amazing stuff for the browser. And, in my very humble opinion, the vast majority of apps should've been WebApps — except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games. I worked in the journalism business, and, in my country, t…

I just wish Web wasn't such a frustrating development experience. While it has improved leaps and bounds in the last decade, I still find it to be suboptimal when compared to native offerings. Most of that frustration comes down to tooling and more specifically TypeScript. I'm not sure how to succinctly express my pain here but I have found generally that I wrestle with the type system in TypeScript far more than nat…

Developing in native GUI frameworks is just as frustrating. Using QT for complex GUIs is more frustrating than HTML5/react or whatever

Re: Write code for the web

#336

Post by wackget »

bowsamic wrote: post #92

Unfortunately from a non-professional perspective, writing for the web is just soul crushingly boring and honestly depressing. I'd rather not be reminded that this is where the cross-platform development takes place. It genuinely makes me hate programming and I find negative joy in it

What parts of it do you find boring, specifically?

Re: Write code for the web

#337

Post by mardifoufs »

bogwog wrote: post #170
zshrc wrote: post #2

Apple provides thousands of APIs to make developing on the platform easier, has created their own programming language that integrates nicely with the platform and has a fully integrated IDE that works with both above. Sure, buddy… They don’t care about you unless you develop for their platform. And who can blame? The above is a terribly expensive and timely investment.

Hey man. I don't know you, but even if you had a highly successful app on the appstore, I (an internet stranger) would care more about you being hit by a bus than the Apple corporation would, or any of the MBAs over there that you worship. Any relationship you think you have with Apple is completely in your head. They take advantage of people like you all the time. Developing for Apple is an abusive relationship, and…

>you worship

Yeah okay, I guess you worship google if you support webapps too?

Re: Write code for the web

#338

Post by spacedcowboy »

Drew_ wrote: post #299
spacedcowboy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ObjC is not “a very difficult language to work with” by any means, and Xcode is fine - it’s not the absolute best IDE out there, but having tried several, it’s ok. Honestly, having “enjoyed” decades of different systems, from the days of 8” floppies onwards, developers today are spoilt rotten, and still find things to complain about. Grumble, mumble, kids today, get off my lawn etc etc

Objective-C is the only programming language that was genuinely unreadable on first glance to me so I would definitely agree that it's difficult to work with.

Personally i don’t see much difference between

class obj = new class()

and

class obj = [class new]

And i think the named parameters are easier to read

And ARC gives you pretty easy memory management - basically “don’t even have to think about it” except for more-obscure cases, even then weak properties can help out.

ObjC is really only a little more complex than C, but gives you so much more for that little increase. It’s orders of magnitude less complicated than c++, but is capable of handling enormous codebases just like C++

It is under-appreciated IMHO.

Re: Write code for the web

#339

Post by kredd »

bmitc wrote: post #106
kredd wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you, but on the other side of the coin, if you follow the processes they’re forcing on you… it’s pretty seamless. Sometimes it’s a bit buggy when they release new APIs or versions of tooling, but given the amount of people who do Native development and the money it generates, it gets resolved.

I don't have infinite time and energy. It would be easier to just not support macOS rather than learn an entire stack just for them. Microsoft also has a Windows-only stack, but its perfectly fine to use others.

I’m not sure what you mean by “entire stack” when it comes to mobile development, especially with iOS. If you want to target >85% of all devices, you aim for iOS current version - 1, then Swift and xCode your way into AppStore.

I am obviously over-simplifying it, but my point is it really depends on the market you’re aiming for. Like if you think you’ll make an app for users in North America, not supporting Android makes more sense. On the opposite side, if you want India, LATAM, you can drop iOS and never learn anything about Swift since your ROI will be very little. Again, heavily depends on what your goal is.

Re: Write code for the web

#340

Post by Sateeshm »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #212
host0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWAs, especially those built with an offline-first approach, are so much closer to the native experience than those from half a decade ago. However what concerns me is Google's and Apple's incentives to help them get better to a point where they can rival native apps which could hit their bottom line.

> PWAs . . . are so much closer to the native experience than those from half a decade ago. On the one hand I love this. I'm glad PWAs are helping drive people who wants and expect a certain thing towards the web. I am also however super sad that PWAs removed so much greatness of the web. Most don't launch in the browser. None have visible url bars. They just added a new mode so PWAs can have some kind of tabs. They…

You can use extensions with PWAs,at least on desktop
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