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Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

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Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#331

Post by klabb3 »

raiyu wrote: post #149

Anyone else think this has nothing to do with the regulatory agencies but instead the market has dramatically shifted in the past 15 months in terms of valuations and this is a nice cover to cancel the deal? Figma still gets $1B "investment" without giving up any equity or control and Adobe gets to walk away from a massive $20B fee. Adobe makes $17B a year in revenue, they would need some pretty strong growth out of…

I could believe this but if so why wouldn’t Figma fight to get the deal through? $20B is a lot to leave on the table, assuming they’d already emotionally accepted to lose control of the company? Why settle for the $1B “fuck off” consolation?

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#332

Post by ceejayoz »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #315
ethanbond wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition is the social media-fueled snake oil meme.

One very simply question: What defines value better than an exit? Or the offer to exit? (Hint: Nothing.) You might not like the definition, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Exit valuation doesn't come from God. It comes from metrics like growth, profit, etc., all of which are readily available without actually exiting.

Even if we accept your assertion that it's the best way to value something, that doesn't mean it's the only way to value something.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#333

Post by irishcarbomb777 »

danpalmer wrote: post #271
madeofpalk wrote: post #6

Excellent news. I think there should be more products, more companies, and more competition. Adobe just buying up it's competition will only ever directly hurt consumers. See also, "Adobe says the FTC is looking into its subscription cancellation practices." https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/15/24003532/adobe-says-the-...

> Adobe says the FTC is looking into its subscription cancellation practices Great news, where do I testify? Adobe tried to bribe me personally to not fight their subscription cancellation policies for the company I was representing. Given how obviously unimpressed I was with the whole thing and how I was clearly not the target market of a creative cloud subscription, I can only assume that this is a policy that the…

It’s great to see the FTC is looking into this. Every time I’ve had to deal with Adobe subscriptions it always feels like they put you through some maze which usually ends in being forced to pay a cancellation fee or losing in some other way. I recently lost 160 asset tokens I had saved up in Adobe Stock after canceling my subscription. I’m sure it mentions this in the fine print somewhere but the only reason I had saved that many tokens up was because I couldn’t cancel without paying the fee. So they trapped me, took my money and then took back the tokens I only paid for because they locked me in with a cancellation fee in the first place. At the very least I should be able to keep the asset tokens. The whole thing seemed absolutely ridiculous to me.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#334

Post by xyzzy4747 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #299
nightski wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what exactly are the ramifications of this "contract law" in the context of Adobe subscriptions? Adobe will sue you? Are they suing large amounts of customers?

They'll send you to collections, which'll ruin your credit.

How does that work? I don’t think Adobe has your social security number.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#335

Post by threetonesun »

bastawhiz wrote: post #303
FredPret wrote: post #295

Photographers: is Adobe Photoshop still the king of photo editing? I strongly dislike Adobe’s “subscription only” business model, but it seems the market is telling them that subscriptions are a-OK: Adobe’s profits are very steady and are up 70+% in five years. [ https://valustox.com/ADBE ]

I'm not a photographer, but pretty much everyone I know who does anything with photos or image manipulation is using Photoshop. I'm the only person I know who uses a Photoshop alternative in any capacity (pixelmator)

The Affinity suite of products is pretty popular, at least what I've seen from non-professional use. Not sure what their professional use numbers look like, but for at least Photoshop/Illustrator/Publisher they seem like a real competitor.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#336

Post by danpalmer »

nolok wrote: post #323
danpalmer wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Adobe says the FTC is looking into its subscription cancellation practices Great news, where do I testify? Adobe tried to bribe me personally to not fight their subscription cancellation policies for the company I was representing. Given how obviously unimpressed I was with the whole thing and how I was clearly not the target market of a creative cloud subscription, I can only assume that this is a policy that the…

Unless you have clear proof of that (saved emails...) and own the company, or you were acting as third party (consultant,...) I would advise not making those accusation in a public place without consulting with their legal representative. It is simply not in your personal interest, and if someone starts an inquiry into this and said company doesn't want to help much you might find yourself in the middle of two legal…

Thank you for your advice. The company no longer exists. I don't have any records of this because it was over the phone and probably 4 years ago.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#337

Post by nolok »

thelittleone wrote: post #253
noirscape wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobes cancellation practices are literally illegal in the Netherlands by the way. The deceptive trick of "pay monthly for a full year" and then hitting you with the cancellation fee is against local law. (It's called de wet van Dam for the curious.) You have to threaten their customer support with legal complaints to make them comply with it, it's super frustrating to deal with. They do fold immediately when you do…

I recommend using virtual credit cards for subscriptions. I just cancel the card if the account cancellation process is hostile in anyway.

In Europe just cancel your credit card authorization at the bank, or your SEPA mandate, or your PayPal authorization, depending on.

They will try to scare you and ultimately won't go after you because the legality of this for b2c is very very iffy (because of the way they present the information on the sale page, which doesn't meet any informed consent level required). At least in my country, apparently in NL too, and if it ever got to the European level it would be smashed easily.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#338

Post by cartermatic »

andsoitis wrote: post #156

Why did Figma want to sell itself to Adobe in the first place? Even though their revenue is only about $400MM, As far as I know, they make a very healthy profit (operating margin of ~90%), and they’ve also been expanding through organic and acquisition means (e.g. they bought Diagram). Is it because they see the ability to grow the company’s products even more given the Adobe footprint?

I think they saw 20 billion reasons to sell to Adobe. Their last valuation was $10billion in 2021 so a 2x on that a year later would be hard for anyone to pass up. They can pretend they went with Adobe for aspirational aims to make the product better, but at the end of the day it was about the very juicy multiple Adobe was offering.

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#339

Post by manuelabeledo »

duringmath wrote: post #121
xuki wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very easy, just don’t operate in said jurisdictions.

That's not how free trade works or not how it's supposed to anyway. You can't just go after a sector of your trade partner's economy just to compensate for your home sector's deficiencies.

So governments are supposed to let corporations run unabashed in their jurisdictions?

> You can't just go after a sector of your trade partner's economy just to compensate for your home sector's deficiencies.

Is that what the EU is doing, or is it what you yourself think they are doing?

Re: Figma and Adobe abandon proposed merger

#340

Post by nolok »

cantSpellSober wrote: post #277
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once upon a time, digital product design happened in Photoshop and Illustrator. Then competitors like Sketch and Figma came out with a better product. This made Adobe create XD to compete, but it was unable to make a good product so instead they tried to purcahse their competition instead of making something better. 9 months after Adobe announced it was to purchase Figma (and 3 months before it hoped the deal would c…

Fireworks tried to fill the gaps between PS and Illustrator, but never got traction. > Adobe discontinued XD That was my understanding as well, hmm

Fireworks wasn't an original Adobe product but a Macromedia one they got during the acquisition. Adobe seems to have had some massive lack of effort for those (Flash being the prime exemple).
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