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23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

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Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#331

Post by listenallyall »

zlg_codes wrote: post #254
underwater wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that in the US individuals have to band together and privately launch a class action to stop these types of parasitic behaviours. The government is supposed to represent the interests of citizens.

> The government is supposed to represent the interests of citizens. I'm not sure that's ever happened in this country. They pay all sorts of lip service, but when challenged or under pressure, the US makes a lot of excuses for leaving its own people behind. Thankfully we can repay that favor and see how they like it when there's nobody left to defend them.

Who is "we" and "them" in your statement?

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#332

Post by listenallyall »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #255
alistairSH wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly why - we have a largely dysfunctional federal government (and most state governments aren't much better). The biggest downside is the lawyers take a massive chunk of any award and the actual victims are often left with very little. Or, even worse, the victims get worthless coupons (like with many credit/PII breaches - the award will be 1-year of credit monitoring from the company that allowed the breac…

This credit score system in the US always made me curious. Say some point I had a proposition to move to the US and I asked the company offering the job how they will ensure that I immediately get the best possible score. They said it was not possible because it was a personal score. I told them that I will certainly not start to build a credit score at 40 yo so they will have to find someone else.

You refused a job because the company would not assist you in obtaining a perfect ("best possible") credit score?

a) nobody has a perfect score b) FICO algorithms are proprietary from third-party companies, how would your potential employer have any influence?

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#333

Post by WalterBright »

hmottestad wrote: post #288
WalterBright wrote: post #231

"reports revealing that attackers accessed personal information of nearly 7 million people — half of the company’s user base — in an October hack." Breaking into a system should never provide access to 7 million people. The database should be divided up into multiple "cells" each with its own separate access restrictions. It's the same idea that spy networks use to prevent one compromised spy from bringing down the w…

What if you want to run a query to compare your DNA to everyone else’s to see if you have any relatives that are registered already? Wouldn’t that need access to the entire database and essentially be a point of weakness?

I am no expert on such systems. But it seems to me that the comparisons should only be run within the cells. The caller only passes the one to compare it to, and the only thing that comes back from each cell is any matches. That way, only the specific cell has access to its data.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#334

Post by listenallyall »

eshack94 wrote: post #210
eweise wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in California, its illegal for anything to fall from a vehicle except water and bird feathers so not sure how that sign help them.

If I'm not mistaken, that's the point the person above you was making. Those stickers on dump trucks that say "Stay back 200 feet. Not responsible for broken windshields" are worthless from a legal perspective. They do absolutely nothing to remove liability from the truck driver/company. If a rock falls from their truck and cracks your windshield, they absolutely are responsible for any damages. Rather, their sole va…

Such a lawsuit, if one was filed, would be in civil court, where nothing is guaranteed. If, in the unlikely case that the suit was not settled and it actually went to jury, no judge would direct that jury that truckers "absolutely are responsible for any damages."

If you are tailgating directly behind a rock truck with a big sign "stay back 200 feet" for an extended period of time, or end up right behind the truck because you're in a big hurry, or because you thought you could squeeze through an empty lane, a good lawyer could absolutely argue, successfully, that you are at least halfway responsible for the damage, if not 100%.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#335

Post by pizzalife »

hmottestad wrote: post #289
pizzalife wrote: post #105

I interviewed for a security position there a few years ago, but they cut the role before the interview process was over. Kind of feels like they didn't prioritize security - you reap what you sow.

Could have been that they found someone internally.

Could be, but I've interviewed with dozens of companies and I've never had that experience elsewhere.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#336

Post by [deleted] »

sedatk wrote: post #287
mdavidn wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot an important one: Your ancestors, descendants, siblings, and cousins share much of the same DNA but did not consent to its release. All of the above risks apply to them as well. I'd be most concerned about insurance companies using genetic family history to deny coverage.

I'm not too worried about it because it's never a 100% overlap. Even my brother and I share only ~50% DNA. It gets way sparser for more distant relatives. About insurance companies, they're legally forbidden to use such data.

[deleted]

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#337

Post by lolinder »

jbombadil wrote: post #188

I honestly don't understand how "If you don't opt out within 30 days you'll be bound to the new TOS" works. I have heard of two big "trends" of how people think about legal contracts: [1] What is written there and what both parties agreed to is the truth. [2] A contract is supposed to be a "meeting of the minds". If it's proven that one party was being deceitful, then the contract (or that part) doesn't hold. If we g…

The theory is that you start the contract with the terms specifying that changes put forward by the company (but not the user) are automatically accepted with 30 days' notice. That's where the meeting of the minds occurs: in theory, from that point on, you've agreed that the terms can change.

However, I'm not sure if that's ever been tested in court as a valid theory, and regardless it certainly shouldn't be legal (any more than noncompetes).

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#338

Post by ironick09 »

eshack94 wrote: post #210
eweise wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in California, its illegal for anything to fall from a vehicle except water and bird feathers so not sure how that sign help them.

If I'm not mistaken, that's the point the person above you was making. Those stickers on dump trucks that say "Stay back 200 feet. Not responsible for broken windshields" are worthless from a legal perspective. They do absolutely nothing to remove liability from the truck driver/company. If a rock falls from their truck and cracks your windshield, they absolutely are responsible for any damages. Rather, their sole va…

i’m guessing you have a problem with signs that say “danger, do not enter” as well

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#339

Post by tacocataco »

dylan604 wrote: post #228
underwater wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that in the US individuals have to band together and privately launch a class action to stop these types of parasitic behaviours. The government is supposed to represent the interests of citizens.

Lobbying. Citizens United. Disinterested populace. Do you need a longer list?

First Past The Post voting discouraging competition in the electoral system.

Re: 23andMe changed its terms of service to prevent hacked customers from suing

#340

Post by drdaeman »

mrweasel wrote: post #65
d2049 wrote: post #21

I would have presumed that security-minded people, which includes those who work in tech, would not so easily give away their genome, and that most of 23andMe's customers are a slice of the general population. But then I read about things like WorldCoin and that people who go to startup parties jump at the chance to give away scans of their retinas and I'm befuddled. Why would anyone willingly do that?

The same people believed crypto-currency, infinite growth, social media and many other things. At least 23andMe provided actual value, to some at least. What I find strange is that 23andMe did not automatically delete data after 30 days, or at the very least took it offline, only to be available on request. Notify people that their results are available and inform them that the data will be available for 30 days afte…

They will NOT delete your data even if you request a full account deletion, so surely they aren't interested in voluntarily deleting it.

It's all in the fine print. The labs will keep the genetic information as well as at least your DOB and sex for at least 10 years (CLIA requirements), and 23andMe will keep your identifying information (such as your email address) and account deletion request ID for some undefined period of time. Yes, this will remove some links (and birthday paradox works in user's favor), but this is certainly not a full and complete removal.

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