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Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

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Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#331

Post by abustamam »

hot_gril wrote: post #307
bradhe wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft eating Google's lunch on documents is laughable at best. Not to mention it confuses the entire timeline of office productivity software??

Is paid MS Teams is more or less common than paid GSuite? It's hard to find stats on this. GSuite is the better product IMO, but MS has a stronger b2b reputation, and anecdotally I hear more about people using Teams.

Does anyone use paid GSuite for anything other than docs/drive/Gmail ? In all companies I've worked at, we've used GSuite exclusively for those, and used slack/discord for chat, and zoom/discord for video/meetings.

I know that MS Teams is a more full-featured product suite, but even at companies that used it, we still used Zoom for meetings.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#333

Post by b112 »

hot_gril wrote: post #307
bradhe wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft eating Google's lunch on documents is laughable at best. Not to mention it confuses the entire timeline of office productivity software??

Is paid MS Teams is more or less common than paid GSuite? It's hard to find stats on this. GSuite is the better product IMO, but MS has a stronger b2b reputation, and anecdotally I hear more about people using Teams.

Teams will likely still be around in 20 years. I doubt gsuite will exist in 5... or even 1.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#334

Post by rurp »

DonnyV wrote: post #259

This is so crazy. Google invented transformers which is the bases for all these models. How do they keep fumbling like this over and over. Google Docs created in 2006! Microsoft is eating their lunch. Google creates the ability to change VM's in place and makes a fully automated datacenter. Amazon and Microsoft are killing them in the cloud. Google has been working on self driving longer than anyone. Tesla is catchin…

While it is crazy, it's not too surprising. Google has become as notorious for product ineptitude as they have been for technical prowess. Dominating the fundamental research for GenAI but face planting on the resulting consumer products is right in line with the company that built Stadia, GMail/Inbox, and 17 different chat apps.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#335

Post by Davidzheng »

modeless wrote: post #296
dragonwriter wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Chain of thought" or other approaches where the model does all its thinking using a literal internal monologue in text seem like a dead end. Humans do most of their thinking non-verbally and we need to figure out how to get these models to think non-verbally too. Insofar as we can say that models think at all between the input and the stream of tokens output, they do it nonverbally. Forcing the structure of reduce…

You're right, the models do think non-verbally. However, crucially, they can only do so for a fixed amount of time for each output token. What's needed is a way for them to think non-verbally continuously, and decide for themselves when they've done enough thinking to output the next token.

Is it clear that humans can think nonverbally (including internal monologue) continuously? As in, for difficult reasoning tasks, do humans benefit a lot from extra time if they are not allowed internal monologue. Genuine question

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#337

Post by plaidfuji »

davesque wrote: post #287

A big red flag for me was that Sundar was prompting the model to report lots of facts that can be either true or false. We all saw the benchmark figures that they published and the results mostly showed marginal improvements. In other words, the issue of hallucination has not been solved. But the demo seemed to imply that it had. My conclusion was that they had mostly cherry picked instances in which the model happen…

These LLMs do not have a concept of factual correctness and are not trained/optimized as such. I find it laughable that people expect these things to act like quiz bots - this misunderstands the nature of a generative LLM entirely.

It simply spits out whatever output sequence it feels is most likely to occur after your input sequence. How it defines “most likely” is the subject of much research, but to optimize for factual correctness is a completely different endeavor. In certain cases (like coding problems) it can sound smart enough because for certain prompts, the approximate consensus of all available text on the internet is pretty much true and is unpolluted by garbage content from laypeople. It is also good at generating generic fluffy “content” although the value of this feature escapes me.

In the end the quality of the information it will get back to you is no better than the quality of a thorough google search.. it will just get you a more concise and well-formatted answer faster.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#338

Post by ren_engineer »

DonnyV wrote: post #259

This is so crazy. Google invented transformers which is the bases for all these models. How do they keep fumbling like this over and over. Google Docs created in 2006! Microsoft is eating their lunch. Google creates the ability to change VM's in place and makes a fully automated datacenter. Amazon and Microsoft are killing them in the cloud. Google has been working on self driving longer than anyone. Tesla is catchin…

>Google Docs created in 2006

tech was based on an acquired company, Google just abused their search monopoly to make it more popular(same thing they did with YT). This has been the strategy for every service they've ever made, Google really hasn't launched a decent in-house product since Gmail and even that was grown using their search monopoly as free advertising

>Google Docs originated from Writely, a web-based word processor created by the software company Upstartle and launched in August 2005

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#339

Post by hot_gril »

Slackwise wrote: post #327
hot_gril wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineer-driven company. Not enough top-down direction on the products. Too much self-perceived moral high ground. But lately they've been changing this.

Uhh, no, not really; quite the opposite in fact. Under Eric Schmidt they were engineer-driven, during the golden era of the 2000s. Nowadays they're MBA driven, which is why they had 4 different messaging apps from different product managers.

Lack of top-down direction is what allowed that situation. Microsoft is MBA-driven and usually has a coherent product lineup, including messaging.

Also, "had." Google cleaned things up. They still sometimes do stuff just cause, but it's a lot less now. I still feel like Meet using laggy VP9 (vs H.264 like everyone else) is entirely due to engineer stubbornness.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#340

Post by AndrewKemendo »

robbomacrae wrote: post #291
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I’d agree that what they showed will never be possible and in fact my whole point is that I think Google can most likely deliver on that in this specific case. Chalk it up to my experience in the space, but from what I can see it looks like something Google can actually execute on (unlike many areas where they fail on product regularly). I would agree completely that it’s not ready for consumers the way…

The voice interaction part didn't look a far cry from what we are doing with Dynamic Interaction at SoundHound. Because of this I assumed (like many it seems) that they had caught up. And it's dangerous to assume they can just "deliver later". It's not that simple. If it is why not bake it in right now instead of committing fraud? This is damaging to companies that walk the walk and then people have literally said to…

I feel that more than you realize

That was basically what magic leap did to the whole AR development market. Everyone deep in it knew they couldn’t do it but they messed up so badly that it basically killed the entire industry

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