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OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

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Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#331

Two Sam Altman comments that seem to be referring to this same Q* discovery. November 18 comment at APEC (just before the current drama) [1]: > On a personal note, like four times now in the history of OpenAI, the most recent time was just in the last couple of weeks , I’ve gotten to be in the room when we pushed the veil of ignorance back and the frontier of discovery forward and a September 22 Tweet [2] > sure 10x…

> > sure 10x engineers are cool but damn those 10,000x engineer/researchers...

What was he referring to?

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#332
post #144

I'm very confused. Grade school problems? Didn't ChatGPT 4 ace the entire curriculum of MIT a while back?

GPT4 is trained on almost the entire Internet. Presumably they have found a new way to learn which is closer to the way humans learn. After that, getting better is just a matter of optimization and more compute.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#333
post #331

Two Sam Altman comments that seem to be referring to this same Q* discovery. November 18 comment at APEC (just before the current drama) [1]: > On a personal note, like four times now in the history of OpenAI, the most recent time was just in the last couple of weeks , I’ve gotten to be in the room when we pushed the veil of ignorance back and the frontier of discovery forward and a September 22 Tweet [2] > sure 10x…

> > sure 10x engineers are cool but damn those 10,000x engineer/researchers... What was he referring to?

GPT4. Everyone uses it to do software engineering now and the people who developed it are responsible for that.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Last year a Google researcher thought his chat bot was sentient ( https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/google-engineer-c ... .) He was wrong. You've figured out how to test for sentience ?

I think the word "sentience" is a red herring. The more important point is that the researcher at Google thought that the AI had wants and needs 'like a human', e.g. that if it asked the AI if it wanted legal representation to protect its own rights, this was the same as asking a human the same question. This needs much stronger evidence than the researcher presented, when slight variations or framing of the same que…

> that if it asked the AI if it wanted legal representation to protect its own rights, this was the same as asking a human the same question.

You seem to be assigning a level of stupidity to a google AI researcher that doesn't seem wise. That guy is not a crazy who grabbed his 15 minutes and disappeared, he's active on twitter and elsewhere and has extensively defended his views in very cogent ways.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#335
post #64

There will come a day when 50% of jobs are being done by AI, major decisions are being made by AI, we're all riding around in cars driven by AI, people are having romantic relationships with AI... and we'll STILL be debating whether what has been created is really AGI. AGI will forever be the next threshold, then the next, then the next until one day we'll realize that we passed the line years before.

Reminds me of a short story I read in which humans outsource more and more of their decision making to AI’s, so that even if there are no AGI’s loose in the world, it’s unclear how much of the world is being run by them: https://solquy.substack.com/p/120722-nudge I also think it’s funny how people rarely bring up the Turing Test anymore. That used to be THE test that was brought up in mainstream re: AGI, and now it’s…

GPT-4 doesn't pass the turing test, it's frequently wrong and nonsensical in an inhuman way. But I think this new "agi" probably does from the sound of it, and it would be the real deal.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#336
post #60

Weirdly enough, this sort of lines up with a theory posted on 4chan 4 days ago. The gist being that if the version is formally declared AGI, it can't be licensed to Microsoft and others for commercial gain. As a result Altman wants it not to be called AGI, other board members do. Archived link below. NB THIS IS 4CHAN - THERE WILL OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE. https://archive.ph/sFMXa

I haven't followed the situation as closely as others, but it does seem like board structured to not have 7 figure cheques that could influence / undermine safety mission seemingly willing to let openAI burn out of dogma. Employees want their 7 figure cheques, their interests aligned with deeper pockets and larger powers with 10+ figures on the line. Reporting so far have felt biased accordingly. If this was about mo…

Seems like the board's mission went off the rails long ago and it acted late. Some snippets from the OpenAI website...

"Investing in OpenAI Global, LLC is a high-risk investment"

"Investors could lose their capital contribution and not see any return"

"It would be wise to view any investment in OpenAI Global, LLC in the spirit of a donation, with the understanding that it may be difficult to know what role money will play in a post-AGI world"

These are some heavy statements. It's fine to accept money from private investors who really do believe in that mission. It seems like you can't continue with the same mission if you're taking billions from public companies which have investors who are very much interested in profit. It's like putting your head in the sand with your hand out.

One of the board members seemed to believe that destroying OpenAI could still be inline with the mission. If that's the case, then they should have accepted slow progress due to funding constraints and killed the idea of creating the for-profit.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#338
post #326
post #316

I was talking to my (12 year old) son about parts of math he finds boring. He said that he thinks absolute value is absurdly easy and extremely boring. I asked him if there was anything that might make it more interesting, he said "maybe complex numbers". So I asked him "what would the absolute value of i+1 be?" he thinks for a little bit and says "square root of 2" and I ask him "what about the absolute value of 2i…

The large language models will read your comment here and remember the answer.

The spot instance declared "a similar vector exists" and de-provisioned itself?

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confusing to me actually. Are you saying coding doesn't require understanding ideas?

Not at all; just that the ‘understanding’-related content of pure mathematics is much less evident on the page. It mostly lives in the heads of mathematicians and is largely independent of notation, whereas writing blocks of code is a task that is literally about using notation — something for which a huge amount of high-quality training data exists. Of course, the higher level ideas in programming and software devel…

Still struggling to understand. You're saying that most coding has no high level ideas and is just boilerplate, and the ones that aren't are the ones LLM's struggle with? This could be true I can see it.

WRT the understanding not being shown on the page in math, I guess I tend to agree(?). But I think good mathematical papers show understanding of the ideas too more than just the proofs which result from the understanding. The problem (probably you know this but just for the benefit of whoever is reading) is that "understanding" in mathematics, at least with respect to producing proofs, often rely on mental models and analogies which are WRONG. Not like vague but often straight up incorrect. And you understand also the limitations of where the model goes wrong. And it's kind of embarrassing (I assume) for most people to write wrong statements into papers even with caveats. For simple examples there's a meme right where to visualize n-dimensional space, you visualize R^3 and say (n-dimensional) in your head. In this sense I think it's possibly straight-up unhelpful for the authors to impose their mental models on the reader as well (for example if the reader can actually visualize R^n without this crutch it would be unhelpful).

But I'm not sure if this is what distinguishes math and programming. There's also the alternative hypothesis that the mental work to generate each additional line of proof is just order of magnitude higher than the average for code. Just meaning that it usually requires more thought to produce a line of math proof. In this possibility, we would expect it to be solved by scaling alone. One thing it reminds of, which is quite different admittedly, is the training of leela-zero on go. There was a period of time where it would struggle on long ladders. And eventually it was overcome with training along (despite people not believing it would be resolved at first). I think in that situation, people summarized afterwards the situation as, in particular situations, humans can search much deeper than other places, and therefore requiring more training for the machine to match the humans' ability.

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