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Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

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Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#331

Post by RugnirViking »

chimprich wrote: post #249
RugnirViking wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would require a lot of strong social structres. Because a lot of important tasks (like maintaining the floor cleaning equipment in the robot-tractor tyre factory) just really isnt that interesting but still needs to be done. I can see ways motivation can come from others. I'd argue my motivation to persist in my work isn't (directly) because of the money I am paid but rather due to social effects of my colleagues,…

> a lot of important tasks (like maintaining the floor cleaning equipment in the robot-tractor tyre factory) just really isnt that interesting but still needs to be done In a heavily AI-oriented future, why wouldn't that be done by the floor-cleaning robot?

the robot would be the equipment. Someone needs to maintain it, and it wont be very exciting

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#332

Post by gwoolhurme »

amarant wrote: post #323
allturtles wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you think will happen when the indie-game-making AI is released?

Oh that would be so cool! I could finally give all my game ideas a shot, even the more weird/experimental ones! As it is now I have to consider expected payout divided by expected effort, and a lot of ideas are just non starters because they're simply too big to finish for me. Financially, well I'd expect people as an aggregate would keep spending about the same amount of money, so I don't think the proverbial pie wo…

It's not a god given right, but I worked really hard to get to where I am in life my visa is tied to my profession and I have a feeling it's going a way soon. Which means my visa might go away soon. I've gone from contemplate suicide to how to carry on. What you might think is awesomeness is dread for others. Just to point out there are 2 sides to this coin.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#333

Post by chimprich »

RugnirViking wrote: post #331
chimprich wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of important tasks (like maintaining the floor cleaning equipment in the robot-tractor tyre factory) just really isnt that interesting but still needs to be done In a heavily AI-oriented future, why wouldn't that be done by the floor-cleaning robot?

the robot would be the equipment. Someone needs to maintain it, and it wont be very exciting

Why would a human be taking the job of the general-purpose maintenance robot (which maintain each other, before you ask)?

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#334

Post by helboi4 »

DrSiemer wrote: post #303
DevX101 wrote: post #298

Michael Jackson was an excellent musician, who just happened to not play any instruments. He'd hum lines, beatbox rhythms to his band who'd then take his ideas and transform his ideas into instrumental music. Most people don't have access to the quality musicians MJ had, but there's a lot of creative people that lack the skills to create their artistic vision. Tech like this could be the unleashing of an age of new g…

The requirement to either pay a lot for or learn how to do mastering always seemed unnecessary to me. Stuff like mixing, equalizing, sidechaining and eternal sample hunts all take a lot of time as well... It's why making music is one of the hobbies I had to let go. Can't wait to get my hands on an AI powered DAW that skips all the tedious stuff! Am I still the one making the music? Well, I'd argue the 300+ hours I'll…

Tbh as much as I'm against stuff like this, I think a mixing and mastering AI could be useful since it is the less creative part of the process. I highly object to AI composing music though.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#335

Post by helboi4 »

peebeebee wrote: post #325
squarefoot wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The not so subtle difference is that synthesizers and drum machines don't play by themselves, or when they do (arrangers) they're 100% recognizable from a real band. AI will change everything.

Not that much difference. You used to have to gather 4 musicians to form a band, pay for recording studio, record an lp, and tour to get your music out. This took years to get that sort of creativity out. Now you make a song on your laptop with some existing samples, and release it to SoundCloud. So it takes much less technical and theoretical knowledge to create a song than 70 years ago. This is just an extension of…

No. You no longer have to gather other humans. But electronic music production requires a wild amount of technical knowledge from a single individual, whereas being in a band only requires you to know how to play one instrument. To do electronic music production decently, you need to understand music theory, the actual physics of waves and how to manipulate that (synthesis), how to even process samples (you can't just chuck them in there), how to mix and master by yourself (bands would generally save up together from playing live to pay someone else for this - these are two fields that people dedicate their whole lives to, and that most electronic music producers do entirely by themselves alongside making the whole song), you need to be able to play piano a little bit usually... you need to learn loads of different hardware and software, and you need to be the sole composer coming up with an idea from nothing, usually containing a number of musical parts closer to a symphony than a rock band.

Electronic music production is not easy. If you really just throw some samples in a daw, it will sound like a 10 year old made it and it will probably break people's speakers because it's not mixed and mastered properly. Electronic music is a mature enough genre (that incidentally even in its inception was originated by people who were also traditional musicians) that fans don't accept a macaroni collage of a song that once again probably would break their speakers.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#336

Post by helboi4 »

butlike wrote: post #263
porkbeer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not self expression when something else does the expressing.

Case: I create a painting. When it's done I say: "yes, this represents how I feel, and I want to share it." Case: I create a painting with a prompt and when it's done I say: "yes, this represents how I feel, and I want to share it." What's the difference?

Have you ever told someone you code and they say "I have an idea for an app!", proceeding to explain in like one sentence the vague idea of an app? Would you call that person a creative? An engineer? An inventor? An entrepreneur? Do you really ever feel that they added any value to you? Do you not find them incredibly naïve? If you did create the app, do you feel like they did 90% of the work of creating this app, because the rest of the process is that meaningless? If you created it from their one line prompt of their idea, would you agree with the concept that the final result was actually all a direct expression of their idea?

The difference is clearly massive.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#337

Post by helboi4 »

butlike wrote: post #260
Jasper_ wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. The people who think that AI will be able to do everything worse than humans, but at an acceptable enough level for executives, and it's far cheaper than even outsourcing work to other countries. The trajectory of the last 10 years has been that the quality of the human experience will go down so the people at the top can make more money, and AI fits perfectly into this narrative.

If any arbitrary job becomes trivially easy, what's the monetary value in the work?

If everyone's job becomes trivially easy, how do we all eat?

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#338

Post by amarant »

vunderba wrote: post #318
amarant wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, and it kinda works, but I usually have a pretty good idea of what I want the theme to sound like, and I'm never able to find something that even resembles my vision. That leaves me with 2 options: hire an orchestra and a choir, along with a composer to make the sound I want, which would cost me a lot more than my games ever sell for, or pick a sound that's never quite, or usually even close to, what I had in…

If you have music that's playing in your head, genuinely playing in your head , as in you can actually hear the physical melody then you should be able to trivially whistle it. So in that respect, this tool which aims to combine pitch detection with instrumentation synthesization would be a pretty big net win for you.

Exactly why I'm so excited about it! And so confused by the apparent outrage on display here for it. How is it morally wrong for me to be able to do that?

I'm trying to understand it but so far all I can see is gatekeeping saying that my music isn't music if I used AI to create it. Judging by the comment paraphrasing pastor Niemöller I'm apparently a Nazi sympathiser for wanting to use this tool.

What in the world is up with that?

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#339

Post by tchaffee »

kevindamm wrote: post #174
tchaffee wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're claiming that gossip and hero worship and celebrity didn't exist before the 20th century which is a wild claim that you'd need to back up with evidence. Humans haven't changed that much over the centuries.

..but our ability to communicate quickly and broadly has.

That doesn't validate the claim.

Re: Google's advanced music generation model and two new AI experiments

#340

Post by amarant »

helboi4 wrote: post #330
amarant wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh that would be so cool! I could finally give all my game ideas a shot, even the more weird/experimental ones! As it is now I have to consider expected payout divided by expected effort, and a lot of ideas are just non starters because they're simply too big to finish for me. Financially, well I'd expect people as an aggregate would keep spending about the same amount of money, so I don't think the proverbial pie wo…

So what's the job that you'd be hoping to get to sustain your hobbies that is immune from AI takeover. Please tell me? I am a creative type that became a commercial SE to actually fund my lifestyle. I don't expect to just make money from creative hobbies just because I want to, so I have gone for a job that is in high demand. But AI will eventually learn to code well enough. Then there will be no demand for software…

Technology has a way creating new jobs when it takes old ones away. I'm not wise enough to know that those new jobs will be, perhaps we're all destined to become "prompt engineers" or similar. Who knows?

I've worked hard to be where I am too, but if you, like me, were able to land a software engineer job, you'll be able to pick up whatever new skill will be needed in the future without much trouble! I have no doubt you'll manage, so I don't worry about it!

If AI leads to ALL jobs being automated well guess what, we're ready for Luxury Gay Space-Communism as described in Iain M Banks' The Culture. My personal favourite sci-fi utopia!

I wouldn't hold my breath for that though, seems about as likely as running in to Jesus Christ in the supermarket. And I say that as an atheist.

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