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Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#331

Post by Nextgrid »

miav wrote: post #204

Some comments try to justify this - they’re wrong. Even if it was just 1% of users, outright ignoring their issues is not acceptable. And far more than 1% travel abroad or do other suspicious activity (such as buying things at a place you’ve never purchased from before). And there are services that handle this correctly. Starling bank (UK) is a fave of mine. Confirm in an app, enter full password in some cases, but t…

> Confirm in an app, enter full password in some cases, but that’s it

That's only on the bank's side. There's a major problem where the merchant later cancels the transaction on their side despite successful 3D-Secure.

Either 3DS doesn't actually offload liability (so even accepting a fully 3DS-verified transaction is a risk), or merchants aren't up to date on what they are and aren't liable for.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#332

Post by [deleted] »

janosdebugs wrote: post #272
k8svet wrote: post #113

I have such immense disdain for Capital One and MasterCard for how they implement 3DS. I have been in Germany for 6 weeks. I have spent thousands of dollars between flights, train tickets, and hotels. Guess what I have to do every, single, time I buy a 3EUR train ticket? Receive an SMS on my American cellphone number. Their "solution" is to have a family member in the US add their number to my account, wake up in the…

Not sure if it works in Germany as a US citizen, but next time try walking into a bank, explaining the situation and asking for a prepaid card. (E.g. we have the Mastercard Red in Austria.) It will take some time, you'll have to show ID, but it may solve the 3 EUR annoyance.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#333

Post by jokethrowaway »

Blame Anti Money Laundering regulations and chargebacks.

AML is a nightmare for banks, most BS they pull off is because the government is worried they won't be able to steal all your tax money.

Strong authentication is another BS regulation with the sole goal of killing small banks with

Chargebacks are convenient for the customer - but they have a cost on the entire system, including banks caring about people stealing a CC and spending.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#334

Post by csomar »

I am of the opinion that these restrictions are used (quietly) to preform a kind of capital restrictions while not (officially) having such capital restrictions in place. This happens because governments (or populations?) have accepted that, say, an agriculture bill (or law) can have sections that cover tech. So if you are trying to do something and you don't want to say it, you slip it in under "fraud" or "AML" or something else.

Now that everyone (including third-world countries) have figured that out; and legacy companies (big Tech, MasterCard/Visa, big banks) know that this makes their customer life hellish however it kills competition: They'll bend over backward, forward and multi-laterally to implement anything that any lawmaker asks them for.

If you are a very simple simpleton, say a government official with a single income, a regular rental, and regular bills (your groceries and your kids pencils), you'll very unlikely face any issue. But start to deviate from that, and everything starts breaking. Governments are becoming hostile to anything that doesn't fit their narrative.

This is only getting worse from here...

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#335

Post by csomar »

k8svet wrote: post #113

I have such immense disdain for Capital One and MasterCard for how they implement 3DS. I have been in Germany for 6 weeks. I have spent thousands of dollars between flights, train tickets, and hotels. Guess what I have to do every, single, time I buy a 3EUR train ticket? Receive an SMS on my American cellphone number. Their "solution" is to have a family member in the US add their number to my account, wake up in the…

Wells Fargo has TOTP over their App. They used to suck as an international option, but now they are my go to. They also give you a little device that generates TOTP numbers offline. Quite handy if your mobile is disconnected, you lose your number, etc...

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#336

Post by csomar »

tjpnz wrote: post #203

As someone who's previously been involved in KYC/AML I've a long held suspicion that these policies are in place to benefit the United States while deliberately inconveniencing everyone else.

I do have the same suspicion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38048156

I also think that the other countries started doing the same thing and this is starting to make the system as weird as it gets.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#337

Post by kalleboo »

cangeroo wrote: post #154
k8svet wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, I'm taking notes! I've tried researching this, but "credit card company that sends TOTP over email" is not really Google-able. Revolut is on my list now, though. Thanks!

Welcome to 21st century! I travel with debit cards from 3 different banks for this reason. Look for banks that issue virtual cards that can be used with Apple Pay / Google Pay. But you also need ideally two physical cards, since one bank may block your physical card for "fraud" while traveling, and now you're stuck and unable to buy a train ticket. Credit cards are only necessary for car rentals, which is a major pai…

With several of my (physical) credit cards, I get an SMS and Email when a charge is blocked, and I can log into my internet banking to assert that the charge was actually me. About 5 minutes later the card is unblocked and I can retry the charge.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#338

Post by 15457345234 »

cj wrote: post #213
matheusmoreira wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish there were a way to detect fraud while never having a false positive. There is: networking. People you trust will tell you about candidates they know about. > it’s also not realistic to optimize for the 1% It's not about what's realistic, it's about what's right. Nobody should be falsely treated like a criminal. That 1% should carry enough legal liability to completely offset if not exceed the gains of preve…

It’s acceptable to reject a candidate because they’re not “a friend of a friend”, but it’s not acceptable to reject a candidate because they submitted an application with an IP address from Pakistan with a VOIP phone number?

Any thread about online scamming will include comments from a bunch of online scammers telling you that the things you can do to make their life harder are unethical.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#339

Post by deathtrader666 »

k8svet wrote: post #124
cangeroo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you open an account with Revolut?

Trust me, I'm taking notes! I've tried researching this, but "credit card company that sends TOTP over email" is not really Google-able. Revolut is on my list now, though. Thanks!

HSBC does send them over email and SMS, and in-app notification as well.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#340

Post by MerelyMortal »

toast0 wrote: post #284
zorgmonkey wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google fi phone numbers are not VOIP they operate as a MVNO. Google voice numbers are VOIP.

It's been a while since I worked with this, but when Google Fi started, their numbers would often show up as Google Voice in carrier lookups, sometimes only for the first few days of service though.

As of 2018 when I last used Google Fi, my number was still being blocked by services that block VOIP numbers, even after having that number in Fi for years.
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