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We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

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Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#331

Post by stickfigure »

bumby wrote: post #55
stickfigure wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't live in urban centers. Unless you plan on dismantling the suburbs, we're stuck with cars of one form or another. Taxis, driverless or otherwise, are "public transport".

It depends on how you define “urban.” The way the census defines it, less than 20% of the US population is non-urban.

I specifically mentioned urban centers - the places easily reached by mass transit. Even in dense cities, many neighborhoods are far enough away from mass transit lines that smaller vehicles are required. Taxis would be a better option than zillions of privately owned cars, and self-driving would make it economical.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#332

Post by stickfigure »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #78
stickfigure wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't live in urban centers. Unless you plan on dismantling the suburbs, we're stuck with cars of one form or another. Taxis, driverless or otherwise, are "public transport".

When those suburbs are within the city limits of large cities, yes absolutely they should be dismantled and densified. There's no justification for using government power to create a housing cartel during a housing shortage. Further, mixed use development like corner stores, restaurants, and grocery stores where people live will eliminate a large fraction of vehicle trips entirely.

> dismantled and densified

Contradiction error. Does not parse.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#333

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

defrost wrote: post #217
inglor_cz wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mass transit is the solution." I spent most of my 45 years of age in public transport, I only had a car for a year and a half (and a total lemon, I don't miss that). Yet I say: beware of people who speak of THE solution . For mass transit to work, population density matters. At least in the EU, there is a trend of people being priced out of capital cities to the surrounding countryside, where the population density…

> Reliable self-driving would be a huge boon to public transport. Public transport would also be a huge boost to reliable self driving .. some years of only having to follow already established routes is a perfect middle step to self driving everywhere. Vehicles can be tuned to the specific trouble spots of specific routes, there is a reduced need to deal with unfamiliar routes, in a number of cities public buses hav…

This is what I've always imagined.

Self-driving vans, with all the fancy LIDAR, where people hop on and hop off, that only drives on specific paths that have been excruciatingly mapped and well-worn.

Basically a little bus without a driver that can adjust its route on the fly.

As a user, you'd be able to get picked up a little closer to your location rather than having to walk to "The Bus Stop", you wouldn't be at the mercy of a set schedule, and it would be much cheaper than a taxi/rideshare because IIRC 70% of their cost is the human labor, and the cost is not split among multiple individuals.

Crucially, they would also use our existing road infrastructure, so you don't have to lay down train tracks, streetcar lines, build dedicated bus lanes, etc.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#334

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

fragmede wrote: post #285
inglor_cz wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mass transit is the solution." I spent most of my 45 years of age in public transport, I only had a car for a year and a half (and a total lemon, I don't miss that). Yet I say: beware of people who speak of THE solution . For mass transit to work, population density matters. At least in the EU, there is a trend of people being priced out of capital cities to the surrounding countryside, where the population density…

> Plenty of people, at least where I live, don't mind living in condos, as long as these are safe and clean. And quiet . The biggest problem is noise pollution causing problems. I want to watch my TV or listen to music at an enjoyable level while also not disturbing my neighbors. The problem with the US is the incentives are not aligned to make sound proofing a requirement, making for bad living conditions and bad ne…

This is a massive issue with newer builds. They often look sleek and impressive, which is what moves units, but they completely cheap out on soundproofing and insulation.

I think there's going to be greater awareness about noise pollution in the coming decade or so (it's hugely detrimental to human health), and it's worth paying attention to if you're looking to buy a place.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#335

Post by ZoomerCretin »

stickfigure wrote: post #332
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When those suburbs are within the city limits of large cities, yes absolutely they should be dismantled and densified. There's no justification for using government power to create a housing cartel during a housing shortage. Further, mixed use development like corner stores, restaurants, and grocery stores where people live will eliminate a large fraction of vehicle trips entirely.

> dismantled and densified Contradiction error. Does not parse.

Did you think people wanted to bulldoze suburbs and not replace them with anything? What did you think was meant by dismantle? I always assumed it meant dismantling the rules that prevent the very natural market-driven densification process.

Suburbs as they exist in the US do not exist because they are the best X for any X that exists; but because of top-down central planning. Remove those rules, and the apartments all but build themselves.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#336

Post by decafninja »

melling wrote: post #230
vrosas wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m actually shocked the ratio is only 3:1. That’s not “few” people that’s hundreds of thousands fighting for a handful of bridges and tunnels each and every morning and every evening in between.

Try sitting in one of those tunnels, full of busses, crawling into Manhattan every weekday. The reality of it all is extremely painful

I commute into Manhattan daily via public transit.

However when I go into Manhattan for non work related activities, my wife and I (and nearly all my friends) always drive.

The NYC transit situation is decent and tolerable, but still very unpleasant. If I want to enjoy a night in the city, the last thing I want to do is deal with the transit system.

Dealing with mild to moderate traffic within the confines of my (admittedly pretty nice) car is not very painful at all.

We look at the traffic situation before going in. If it's terrible, we just cancel our plans in Manhattan and do something else.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#337

Post by LastNevadan »

polalavik wrote: post #17
xnx wrote: post #12

This is a good move on Cruise's part. Cruise is still nowhere near the maturity level that Waymo was at when Waymo first started driving on public roads. On the other hand, we definitely need a real competitor to Waymo. It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully some combination of Cruise, Apple(?), Tesla, or another player will be able to have a feasible alternative to Waymo's Driver.

Out of all the tech problems to solve, driverless cars or driverless taxis has always baffled me. It’s a very complex thing to solve with a zillion edge cases. And for what net gain? What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve? Lack of good public transit? Let’s solve that instead. Millions of cars driverless or not are not a great solution to anything.

Why isn't that a great solution to a problem?

It's likely that self-driving cars will eventually be better drivers than real people. Obviously, it's not like that at this point, but AI gets quite a bit better every year.

Think about the number of man-hours people spend behind the wheel. Taxi drivers are automated, and people who own cars and do something else while in their cars besides operate the car. It's a huge stress and efficiency boost for society.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#338

Post by bbradley406 »

piffey wrote: post #98
melling wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve?” 40,000 deaths in the United States every year. Hundreds of thousands of costly accidents We can’t get great transportation even in the New York City area. We have 0 miles of high-speed rail, while China built 25,000 it’s great that you want to start building some mass transit, but it’ll take a century if we start now. Let’s start by having trains take you to the…

There are over 30 US cities with trains to the airport. Another half dozen on the way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airport_rail_link_syst... US also has almost 350 miles of high speed rail, not 0. The Northeast is where it’s all concentrated with Acela being the fastest. If you live in a major city in the States it’s often way easier and faster to take rail. In Seattle for instance you can beat a driver to…

That list doesn't include cities where the local train (subway or street rail) system connects to the airport, which seems odd. In my experience it's way easier getting to the into the city using local rail compared to dealing with parking, rental cars, traffic etc.

The only downside is almost none of these systems are in operation 24/7, with the exceptions being NYC and Chicago. If you have a very early or late arrival / departure, you just can't use them at all without waiting several hours at the airport. I wish more cities could add reduced frequency night service, something like maybe 1 train every hour or hour and a half.

As a somewhat cherry-picked example, if someone in the southern part of my city wants to take a train into the city center, the last good route with only one transfer leaves at 10 pm. At 10:40pm Google maps suggests a route with 3 transfers that takes almost twice as long (and includes the commuter rail which is a separate, more expensive ticket). The last possible option is at 11:40 and takes 3 times as long as the normal route. If we want people to use trains and subways, the service hours have to be greatly improved.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#339

Post by nvy »

lazide wrote: post #245
nvy wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sitting on public transit doesn't have to suck, though. Have you taken the Paris Métro? Or the London Tube? They're totally fine experiences.

They’re fine when it’s not packed rush hour and you’re sweating your ass off (Tube), or getting shaken down by grifters (Metro) anyway. Which can be much of the time, but isn’t always for sure. NYC subway is also nice when the buskers aren’t blaring music at 140db right next to you and daring anyone to confront them. Still usually better than driving, depending on where you’re going. Sometimes even faster? Women and…

>Women and children

Dunno about the Tube but women and children routinely take the Paris Metro.

>grifters

This just means you look like a tourist.

Re: We have decided to pause driverless operations across all of our fleets

#340

Post by jowea »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #169
melling wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“What incredible inconvenience are we trying to solve?” 40,000 deaths in the United States every year. Hundreds of thousands of costly accidents We can’t get great transportation even in the New York City area. We have 0 miles of high-speed rail, while China built 25,000 it’s great that you want to start building some mass transit, but it’ll take a century if we start now. Let’s start by having trains take you to the…

You want to take a bite out of road deaths legislate a vehicle/phone interlink that disables everything but basic phone functions on smartphones while in the confines of a vehicle, then legislate center console infotainment displays out of existence. Miss me with the bullshit "AI drivers will usher in a new era of road safety", you can trap an AV with a fucking ring of salt on the road if you're clever about how it's…

Would that or mandatory breathalyser to start the car do more?
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