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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#331
post #97

I find it so weird to read these stories on how Americans cope with unionizing. In the Netherlands where I live it is very common and normal to be member of a union. Most branches have a union, IT sector is a "free sector" and does not have a union. My wife works as a teacher and she is member of a union.

American unions are not like European unions. In Europe sectoral unions and sectoral bargaining is the norm. In the US federal law does not allow that. Each firm must unionize individually. In the US unions and enterprices play zero sum game against each other. If the firm unionizes, the firm loses relative to non-unionized competition. Example: the current UAW (United Auto Workers) dispute in the US. If UAW wins, un…

Companies play zero sum games against workers regardless of the existence of unions. Do you know how many times I've heard that a company I work for has posted record profits, but can't supply the yearly bonus because we gotta tighten up the belt on spending?

If companies were less abusive and not ran by sociopaths in the US we wouldn't see the acceleration of unionization like we are.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#332
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American unions are not like European unions. In Europe sectoral unions and sectoral bargaining is the norm. In the US federal law does not allow that. Each firm must unionize individually. In the US unions and enterprices play zero sum game against each other. If the firm unionizes, the firm loses relative to non-unionized competition. Example: the current UAW (United Auto Workers) dispute in the US. If UAW wins, un…

This is not correct. The current UAW strike is to get back benefits the union voluntarily gave up during the 2008 recession because they wanted to keep the Big 3 alive. The union is absolutely willing to bargain in a way that is beneficial to both employees and the companies long term.

They had 4 day work weeks at full pay before 2008?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#333
post #243
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it "abusive" for employers to fire/not pay you if you're away for weeks, or underperforming for months? The terms of the exchange is your time for money. The company isn't a charity. Even if you think there should be a social safety net for these types of circumstances, it makes little sense for employers to provide it. For one, it has the usual problems of tying important services to employment, similar to how he…

> The terms of the exchange is your time for money. So the contract only covers time? Not actual work, but only time? Do I get to spend the time how I want as long as there is a paper trail that it was your time I just wasted? > The company isn't a charity. Yet both are legal and social constructs and not something you can make up on the fly to fit your personal preferences. > it makes little sense for employers to p…

>So the contract only covers time? Not actual work, but only time? Do I get to spend the time how I want as long as there is a paper trail that it was your time I just wasted?

I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be gotcha at my wording, but it's pretty obvious that if you're paying for someone's time, there's an expectation that they're doing what you want them to do. Otherwise it's like ordering an airbnb but you don't get to use it.

>Yet both are legal and social constructs and not something you can make up on the fly to fit your personal preferences.

Let's go with the legal construct then. Most companies are not in fact "charities" as defined in Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. § 501(c)).

>I have been worked to exhaustion for one employer.

No one is forcing you to work "to exhaustion".

>You don't get to reap the profits and socialize the costs, that only incentivizes more abuse.

If you read my previous comment carefully you'd note that I was only against leaving the responsibility of providing those services to companies. That does not preclude companies paying for those services in some way. Most developed countries don't leave the responsibility of providing healthcare to companies, and instead use a combination of public/private insurance schemes that companies and individuals pay into. Are you against that as well, because that would allow companies to "reap the profits and socialize the costs"?

>So if that person was you would you fire yourself and move onto the street in front of your former business?

In reality there are other considerations for key employees like the CEO which complicates this, but in principle? Yes. The CEO has a fiduciary duty to shareholders and if he's incapacitated and unable to fulfill his duties he should step down rather than using the company as a personal rainy day fund.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone makes something awesome that people love, it gets bought by a giant company, the giant company extracts as much value as possible and discards the corpse, someone makes an awesome new version. This is the software lifecycle.

So why am I still using and recommending VLC? Because it doesn't have to be that way. In before the true scotsman of software lifecycles.

VLC is developed by a non-profit (as far as I'm aware). I'm kind of interested in what the world would be like if all companies were non-profit.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#335
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is too worried about the layoffs, but these look like targeted layoffs, reinforcing the notion that union members / representatives are troublesome. At the very least, for the sake of optics, they shouldn't have fired the union reps. Not all of them anyway.

union members / representatives are troublesome Unions are parasites and sources of great evil. Want to control a company? Found one, or buy its shares.

Unions exist for the direct benefit of the employees. Firms can't exist without employees. Why do you think that unions are parasites? Do you think employees are parasites on firms?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#336
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the EU it is probably why they have free healthcare, high minimum wage, work weeks of 34-38 hrs, welfare, 8 hour work days, overtime after, high proportion of part time workers, and highest productivity per hour in Germany. But yeah, unions, hate what you gotta hate. I personally hate long hours for bullshit pay.

Free healthcare! I pay 9% of my income in Poland for the public healthcare I couldn't use due to enormous queues. Therefore I pay subscription to the private medical provider, pay for dentistry, for all the medicine prescribed by any doctor(public as well). What percentage of income typical software spends for medical insurance and bills?

In the US? Having to go to the hospital, having an illness etc can cost tens of thousands of dollars. Other countries pay more per paycheck, we pay a lot more per bill.

Going to the hospital would bankrupt me even as a relatively well off software engineer and even with my decent (work-tied) healthcare I still have months of wait time. In order to get into a doctor I made an appointment in February for a visit in September.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone makes something awesome that people love, it gets bought by a giant company, the giant company extracts as much value as possible and discards the corpse, someone makes an awesome new version. This is the software lifecycle.

So why am I still using and recommending VLC? Because it doesn't have to be that way. In before the true scotsman of software lifecycles.

I think the author of VLC has shared the fact that they keep receiving offers to buy the project for some significant sums of money. They refuse to sell on principle.

It is difficult to prevent enshittification when it requires people to refuse to get rich. Most aren't willing to stick to their principles in the face of that.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#338
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an HR would say, those people are "a bad cultural fit", which legitimately raises the probability of them being laid off to 100%. Simple.

"legitimately"? I'd be surprised..

That's the argument HR would make, as a means of laundering the actual reason.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#339
post #320

For some context, it’s important to understand the degree to which Bandcamp’s success and ubiquity with independent music is built on a people-first, anti-corporate culture. Bandcamp is an obsession for a very large and engaged segment of the independent music world. A good friend, a professional musician, told me “I feel like I’m watching my childhood home burn to the ground.” This is far from a unique sentiment. Pe…

I was wondering why noone had started a bandcamp alternative as I read this article. Bandcamp isn't a complicated product. It's the people and content that define its value. If trust and goodwill are eroded, then the platform loses its value. Glad to see an independent initiative in this space.

There are quite a few alternatives - Resonate, focused on streaming (https://resonate.coop/) and Formaviva, focused on independent electronic music (https://formaviva.com/)

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#340

For some context, it’s important to understand the degree to which Bandcamp’s success and ubiquity with independent music is built on a people-first, anti-corporate culture. Bandcamp is an obsession for a very large and engaged segment of the independent music world. A good friend, a professional musician, told me “I feel like I’m watching my childhood home burn to the ground.” This is far from a unique sentiment. Pe…

Glad to hear someone is working on this.
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