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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#331

Post by davidham »

grishka wrote: post #285
quickco wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you sell a general-purpose computing device and market it as one, you should relinquish any control of it once it's sold. The freedoms we have, and the freedom that should be protected is market choice to buy or not buy any consumer product. If you don’t like Apple, don’t buy its products and purchase a device from a large number of competitors. It is really that simple. There is no rule that consumers have a ri…

But as an app developer, I have no choice, Apple will act like they own my relationship with my users despite having done absolutely nothing for it.

Nothing? They provide and run the marketplace that distributes your app anywhere in the world, and handles nearly frictionless payment. And they have created a marketplace where users feel safe downloading your app. As an Apple customer I value these things pretty highly, more than I value any one app.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#332

Post by martimarkov »

kibwen wrote: post #318
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> Fucking good. Seconded. Perpetually baffled by the so-called hackers in all of these threads arguing vociferously against user freedom.

You have freedom to chose the platform.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#333

Post by Apocryphon »

wvenable wrote: post #329
taffer wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were other app stores besides Apple's for iDevices, Google would require you to download the Play Store to access Gmail, YouTube and Google Maps. Once there's an alternative major app store where Apple's strict privacy rules don't apply, why should companies with a more relaxed privacy stance stay on Apple's store? Your Bank, Facebook, Adobe, and Amazon will likely move to the store with the lowest standards…

Being on the default store is 1000% buff. Literally your Bank, Facebook, and Amazon aren't going to just disappear off the shelves of the biggest store. On Android, Amazon actually run their own app store and they still have all their apps on the play store.

Besides all of the trouble it takes to build and run one's own store, pulling one's apps off the official App Store would be hell for discoverability and UX. And the Amazon store really only exists for the sake of Fire tablets.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#335

Post by Someone »

faeriechangling wrote: post #227
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

>you can only run Safari on iOS Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8 back from a total monopoly, while WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future, so I doubt there's a good anti-competitive case to be made for forcing Apple to stop doing this. It would only accelerate the monopolisation of the browser market if this happened. It would be good for consumers in the short ter…

> were it not for Apple adding 43% to the purchase price of most paid applications, which is much worse for the end user than the average piece of malware

Paid applications on iOS are dirt cheap, so I think the argument that that isn’t paid for by end users but by developers has at least some merit.

I also think it’s more like 18% for the majority of paid applications nowadays (Apple’s cut is 15% for less well selling apps nowadays, and I think there are many, many of those), but that’s a bit of nitpicking.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#336

Post by nargella »

I do wonder if Tim Apple would be so bold as to stop selling in the EU for all the rules and regulations that they have been required to follow. It would be amazing to see that play out imo. Like a reverse boycott could happen?

The secondary strategy Timmy could pull is a dumbed down ecosystem in the EU which I’m sure is even worse for everyone. But hey, you’d be able to buy audible books straight in the app. Is it worth it?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#337

Post by wvenable »

Apocryphon wrote: post #333
wvenable wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being on the default store is 1000% buff. Literally your Bank, Facebook, and Amazon aren't going to just disappear off the shelves of the biggest store. On Android, Amazon actually run their own app store and they still have all their apps on the play store.

Besides all of the trouble it takes to build and run one's own store, pulling one's apps off the official App Store would be hell for discoverability and UX. And the Amazon store really only exists for the sake of Fire tablets.

I have a Samsung Phone, it's preloaded with Galaxy store, and they still put their own apps (even exclusive apps) in the Play store.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#338

Post by catiopatio »

grishka wrote: post #260
catiopatio wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advertising ID gives users and Apple control over tracking when also coupled with AppStore policy that disallows improper use. It’s impossible to prevent fingerprinting of users and devices via purely technical measures — taking away the advertising ID won’t help.

Fingerprinting is hard . Especially when apps are as sandboxed as they are on iOS, and especially when there are so few iOS device models. Any APIs that can be used to share data between apps should be subject to permissions (e.g. file system access) or explicit user action (e.g. sharing content or links from one app to another).

Why do you think fingerprinting is hard?

It’s truly not — the OS sandbox is nowhere near as restrictive as, say, a browser sandbox.

Moreover, if Apple is forced to open the platform to third-party app stores, identifying unique users in collusion with the third-party app store is incredibly easy.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#339

Post by martimarkov »

grishka wrote: post #285
quickco wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you sell a general-purpose computing device and market it as one, you should relinquish any control of it once it's sold. The freedoms we have, and the freedom that should be protected is market choice to buy or not buy any consumer product. If you don’t like Apple, don’t buy its products and purchase a device from a large number of competitors. It is really that simple. There is no rule that consumers have a ri…

But as an app developer, I have no choice, Apple will act like they own my relationship with my users despite having done absolutely nothing for it.

I have bought an iPhone and not your app. You have no relationship with me without me choosing iOS. That’s it. I’m your user and I want to get my apps from the App Store. Respect that decision. Don’t make me go outside the ecosystem I have chosen so you can make you 30%. I say that as a developer who gets charged the 30% as I respect the fact the user decided to use that specific platform for whatever reason they have.

Mine as a consumer is that Apple doesn’t have dark patters when I want to cancel my subscription with your app. When I try to cancel my membership for something else like a magazine or the gym I have to go over 10 steps…

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#340

Post by jwells89 »

faeriechangling wrote: post #323
HWR_14 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8/Chromium from a total monopoly, the App Store monopoly is the only thing holding back "use Meta omni-permission store or get cut off from FB/IG/WhatsApp". And then Meta getting most companies to use their store because they'll take 10% and just the data.

I've never installed the Meta omni-permission store on my Android, but I've certainly installed Facebook's applications via the Play Store. I'm not sure why the situation would be any different with iOS. It seems to me that the app store would still utterly dominate even if it were exposed to competition.

The incentive for Meta, etc to start their own “anything goes” app stores was low when it was a possibility only on Android. It being possible on iOS changes the equation significantly with how iOS users are typically higher value targets due to how on average, they buy/spend more.

It also gives them the opportunity to normalize per-megacorp app stores across the board instead of them always being a weird Android thing like they would be if Meta opened an App Store on Android now.

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