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I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

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Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#331

Post by clucas »

surajrmal wrote: post #262
clucas wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are picking the least important detail of the story. The deal is, Google found a simple way to kill the performance of a rival browser... so they exploited it and immediately started advertising how slow the rival was. By the time the rival fixed the performance issue, the damage was done. If true, that's pretty dirty, and it directly contributed to the growing browser monoculture.

This is a wild conjecture. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The fact they jumped on it means that someone was paying attention to these metrics, but assuming chrome has any influence on YouTube is laughable.

I have no idea if the story is true or not, hence the "if true" clause in my post. I was just pointing out that focusing on the technical aspect is missing the point of the story... the degradation could have been triggered by any number of things, the point of the story was the allegation that Google purposely triggered it and disingenuously used that degradation to claim their browser was faster.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#333

Post by digging »

jimbokun wrote: post #303
digging wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not upset at the OP, but I wouldn't say this is a golden rule. Some people make some really atrocious shit. People should, in general, be at least a little critical of what they're making.

Being critical of what you're making...is infinitely better than being critical of what other people are making while not making anything yourself. The making part is the key.

As I said elsewhere, I'm referring to people doing harm. They should stop making things.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#334

Post by lijok »

maxwell wrote: post #322
lijok wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stuff is bad, fascism is on the rise, mega corporations control more and more wealth, those two things feed on each other, book banning in the US, war in Ukraine, my country is burning due to global warming, ... and all of this bad news damages the psyche. Turn off the news. We are living in unprecedentedly peaceful and prosperous times, and it's only getting better day by day. That is a fact. If you feel otherwise…

What's a fact? It sounds like you're evangelizing willful ignorance and hedonic helplessness, while blindly accepting multinational corporate authoritarianism but shirking any responsibility because closing our eyes makes us feel better. Peace in Europe is shattered. The former President of the United States has been indicted for attempting to overturn an election. R&D on the killer robots + AI from RoboCop and Termi…

I strongly recommend you read the book Factfulness by Hans Rosling. It’s clear you feel strongly about these issues but have been misled by profit seeking media into doomscrolling news meant to keep you engaged at the cost of your mental wellbeing. This book will help you recalibrate your worldview.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#335

Post by otachack »

jaytaph wrote: post #59

OP here. Thanks for the pos/neg/neutral comments everybody. Some remarks: Yes, there are a lot of browsers out there where I can contribute to which would be more efficient. But that would result in just a few browsers instead of a lot of browsers. I'm all for the last one, as this would give people options. This IS a pet project. I never told anyone otherwise. I would start writing it even when I wasn't fed up with…

I think it's amazing you're starting a new project. You stated two points in your blog post on this project: 1. To push back on Chrome almost-monopoly and 2. As a self-learn project.

You'll have to balance the needs between those two. You aren't hitting 1. until you have users picking up the browser. You'll be hitting 2. as soon as you start the project, potentially.

If you contribute to currently existing projects you'll be hitting 1. A lot more but may lack 2. compared to a new project.

Good luck! Btw this is reminding me of Serenity OS which includes a from-scratch browser. You should check it for inspiration :D

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#336

Post by mixmastamyk »

seabass-labrax wrote: post #291
sneak wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just want to write things, and sometimes making money involves not publishing all of your source code. I've made lots of money and I publish every piece of code I've ever written to do it. What you are describing must have been written by someone who does not believe in software freedoms. Software freedom is an ideology, not a license. If you license part of your software as free software but not other parts of y…

> I've made lots of money and I publish every piece of code I've ever written to do it. I'm curious to know what your personal method is. Consulting, paid support, proprietary dual-licensing maybe? There are indeed many ways to make money and still publish code as FOSS; the tricky thing, as always, is to work out which way is the right one for you.

For most people, a pile of software is not nearly enough. They need help of every sort to use it effectively.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#337

Post by ynniv »

binary132 wrote: post #201
ynniv wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a developer my problem with the GPL is that it's less free than other licenses. It's an interesting legal hack, but it can only succeed in its goals by boiling the ocean. I just want to write things, and sometimes making money involves not publishing all of your source code. Having to choose between options and idealism limits the popularity of GPL projects.

Isn't that kind of the point? The purpose of GPL and Free Software (which it has actually had resounding success in) is to develop a free commons which will stay free and not be exploited. It's not for you to exploit to make a buck, and if that excludes your project, that's fine. There are lots of things I would never consider free-licensing, but I think people badly miss the point of free software because they are s…

  It's not for you to exploit to make a buck
Of course it is... That’s what Google does, that’s what all companies who are large enough to know how to work around the GPL do. Every company who uses it on their own servers without telling you, or even compiles and distributes it hoping that no one notices, does. And when they do, they sometimes contribute resources back to the project, which helps it to thrive.

The GPL is very ideological, and there’s nothing wrong with that but you can see the cost of that right here: where someone pointing out there is a hidden cost is shamed for doing so. Given the chance of contributing code or community to two similar projects, I prefer the one that’s more about building than it is about contracts.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#338

Post by function_seven »

charcircuit wrote: post #278
BobbyJo wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-"I'm building a hot rod!" -"Why wouldn't you just go hang out on the factory line at Ford instead?"

The difference is instead of buying parts to build the hotrod you instead start by making an iron mine. If you want to make something custom you don't need to start from scratch.

In the hierarchy of "from scratch", it goes more like "buy fast car", "build fast car from available parts", "machine own parts from stock", "make own castings from scrap metal", "mine ore and smelt it".

Just because my hot rod isn't made from existing parts does it mean I'm mining ore.

Many awesome hot rod projects involve machining from stock or even casting from scrap. What OP is doing is on this same level. He's not doing atomic layer deposition or anything. Just writing code on top of an existing OS and using existing programming languages.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#339

Post by otp209 »

matwood wrote: post #101
jaytaph wrote: post #59

OP here. Thanks for the pos/neg/neutral comments everybody. Some remarks: Yes, there are a lot of browsers out there where I can contribute to which would be more efficient. But that would result in just a few browsers instead of a lot of browsers. I'm all for the last one, as this would give people options. This IS a pet project. I never told anyone otherwise. I would start writing it even when I wasn't fed up with…

You shouldn't have to write this response on 'hacker' news, but good for you. Work on what you want. Some people do wood working, fix cars, or play video games. Others like coding. I have tons of partial projects I've started for various reasons, and enjoyed them all. Good luck and have fun. And, maybe your project does turn into something bigger.

Right? Whether or not it's practical, it's the way we learn.

I used to see that sort of haughty "well why do you want to do X" response all the time on stackoverflow/its ilk (I've basically deprioritized results from that entire network of sites now), which isn't even a good tack as there are plenty of others who might want to do X for other, valid reasons; "why" shouldn't even be a question as far as learning goes.

Re: I'm fed up with it, so I'm writing a browser

#340

Post by unethical_ban »

astrobe_ wrote: post #301
jaytaph wrote: post #59

OP here. Thanks for the pos/neg/neutral comments everybody. Some remarks: Yes, there are a lot of browsers out there where I can contribute to which would be more efficient. But that would result in just a few browsers instead of a lot of browsers. I'm all for the last one, as this would give people options. This IS a pet project. I never told anyone otherwise. I would start writing it even when I wasn't fed up with…

To me the logical conclusion of what you write is not to write yet-another-web-browser, because browsers are rotten to the core by terrible protocol designs, terrible specifications, politics, greed etc. Browsers did not spontaneously start to degrade, it's what the key actors at different times did that made it happen. The only hope, IMO, is to build something much more sane that cannot be abused. Something like Gop…

Gemini is an interesting educational project but the lack of ability to serve even static pictures or video is an absolutely crippling mistake.
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