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The boiling frog of digital freedom

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331–340 of 467 posts

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#331
post #328

There is hope: - 20 years ago it was impossible to buy a PC, especially a laptop, without MS Windows : today there are several suppliers: System76, LaptopWithLinux, TuxedoComputers, to name but a few. - It is only in the last few years (less than 10) that Linux is perfectly usable on the desktop, so I don't care what decision MS will take for Windows, it is irrelevant if you have other options. For office suites we h…

just like living the hermit life, leaving all of these services behind is surprisingly alienating.

I say this as somebody who has done several of these and is trying to continue to expand. but damn, the is a lot of stuff that you miss out on and I'm starting to be squeezed by the losses to move back.

I guess I'm saying, even though I feel driven by a massive moral imperative to engage with technology in that fashion, I find it absurdly difficult to the point of failure. I'm not ready to be a hermit.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#332
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, you didnt use to own your mobile phone number. In the US, at least, it literally took an act of Congress for customers to be allowed to port their numbers between wireless providers.

Nobody would willingly give up their moat.

See California and the Colorado River.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#333
post #213
post #87

> 2027: Non-WEI compliant websites are marked as "insecure" by Chrome and Safari. Accessing them requires confirmation through a "yes, I accept the risk" dialog box. Did I misunderstand WEI? It's an API a website can use to confirm that a client is "authentic", so shouldn't this rather be "Goodle/Apple/Facebook/... drops support for Non-WEI compliant browsers".

Think of it as a way for Google coercing websites into implementing WEI. Any site can be marked as insecure if it doesn't block non wei compliant devices. You may ask why does that make a website insecure? They can give any number of reasons that can be silly, made up or outright lies as long as they are able to convince larger public. For example, they can claim that a site that allows shady(read wei non-compliant)…

Any random website can implement WEI, using it as a means to deem a website "safe" doesn't make much sense. You could use a list of "trusted" domains for that to mark websites as "safe". WEI's intention/threat is to kill smaller browsers that refuse to implement it.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#334

The other day I read an HN comment that thought that when you buy consumer PC hardware, it comes with a ToS that limits your property rights as the owner. It's the kind of uncanny experience I run into more and more often lately: talking with people so immersed in our new normal of cyberpunk dystopia, they seem not to remember how things were in the before-times. So accustomed to exploitative corporate gaslighting, w…

>In the before-times, when you bought something, the seller relinquished all claims to it

and also, all responsibility for it. in the more recent "before times" that you're probably talking about, most things you bought came with a warranty, and if you did unapproved things with that product you would void your warranty. that's what the "warranty void if removed" stickers mean. and yes, when you buy consumer PC hardware there's all kinds of stuff that you can't do with it if you want to keep your warranty.

This hasn't really changed, we just expect more continuing service from our products now, so the list of conditions to recieve those ongoing services from the seller has increased. if you want to buy something and receive no warranty, no software updates, no bugfixes, no cloud sync, no remote access, or all the other modern conveniences, then yeah, you get to do whatever the fuck you want with it.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we most certainly do mean anonymity is a basic part of digital freedom. The only way you could consistently argue that it's not necessary is to advocate prohibiting anyone , including individuals, treating you differently for anything you've said. Which is clearly impossible. Your framing is really just right in line with the bog standard authoritarian pattern of redefining "true" freedom as something that can be…

Wait what? Of course what you say (and do) affects how others perceive you. Just as Uncle Jim drunkenly announcing over Xmas dinner how that Hitler guy had a good plan will affect how everyone sees him in the morning, your twitter feed will have an effect on how your neighbours talk to you. That's a good thing 99% of the time. Social strictures have been how humans managed society for thousands of years. It can lead…

Well yes of course, your first paragraph was exactly my subpoint - declaring otherwise would be impossible.

From there it follows that it is indeed a proper freedom to be able to communicate while limiting the scope of who is privy to that communication, including limiting what can be attributed to some singular inescapable "identity". Saying that preventing this is "a good thing 99% of the time" is a baseless assertion. While this may appear similar to how social strictures have been managed for thousands of years - that's thousands of years of oppression of individuality and persecution for deviating from the herd. The West has overtly bucked that vein of collectivism, which I'd call progress.

Furthermore what you're invoking as some open-and-shut traditional state of affairs was anything but. Witness the concept of hearsay - where party B claims that party A has said something, ostensibly so that others will judge party A for it, but modulo B's reputation. Digital communications render hearsay moot - the default result of party B being able to prove to themselves that party A said something, is that party B can also prove to anyone that party A said that thing. Hence the need for the cryptographic property of repudiation, as the physics of digital information leaves no ambiguous middle ground.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#336
post #328

There is hope: - 20 years ago it was impossible to buy a PC, especially a laptop, without MS Windows : today there are several suppliers: System76, LaptopWithLinux, TuxedoComputers, to name but a few. - It is only in the last few years (less than 10) that Linux is perfectly usable on the desktop, so I don't care what decision MS will take for Windows, it is irrelevant if you have other options. For office suites we h…

just like living the hermit life, leaving all of these services behind is surprisingly alienating. I say this as somebody who has done several of these and is trying to continue to expand. but damn, the is a lot of stuff that you miss out on and I'm starting to be squeezed by the losses to move back. I guess I'm saying, even though I feel driven by a massive moral imperative to engage with technology in that fashion,…

Just rebuild what you're missing, and share. In the journey to do so you will discover some of the most interesting primitives out there, and everyone gains, instead of a few unrepentant Gatekeepers.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#337
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at this list, open source software is the only thing that can help save us from this future. Whenever a corporation takes control of a widespread open source software (eg Oracle buying MySQL) it is forked by the community (MariaDB). If you don’t have access to the source code, you can’t fork it. And ALL the Web 2.0 platforms of today (on which we have our public forums) won’t give you their back-end software.…

What's the alternative to "I built it, I own it"? Seems like forced open sourcing under threat of government force would be worse than what we have now. Also Meta these days is open sourcing more ML tools than any other corp, so I'm not sure the claim that "killing ... all open-source tendencies" is supportable.

I'm imagining something like a "software choice" act which requires all network connected devices to be able to, in principle, have their bootloader unlocked and an alternative operating system loaded in with relative ease. No specialized tools, you can't say "well just unsolder this chip" but you can display a prominent warning that the bootloader is unlocked. Basically do it like android does it, but by law.

There are obviously some specifics there, like if the camera on my phone has a firmware blob, does that need to be able to have the firmware updated? A lot of little caveats like that make such a law difficult, but I think with hardware access the open source community can flourish on devices like smart TVs, etc.

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just like living the hermit life, leaving all of these services behind is surprisingly alienating. I say this as somebody who has done several of these and is trying to continue to expand. but damn, the is a lot of stuff that you miss out on and I'm starting to be squeezed by the losses to move back. I guess I'm saying, even though I feel driven by a massive moral imperative to engage with technology in that fashion,…

Just rebuild what you're missing, and share. In the journey to do so you will discover some of the most interesting primitives out there, and everyone gains, instead of a few unrepentant Gatekeepers.

i would prefer not to

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#339
post #281
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it as a way for Google coercing websites into implementing WEI. Any site can be marked as insecure if it doesn't block non wei compliant devices. You may ask why does that make a website insecure? They can give any number of reasons that can be silly, made up or outright lies as long as they are able to convince larger public. For example, they can claim that a site that allows shady(read wei non-compliant)…

> Think of it as a way for Google coercing websites into implementing WEI. And why exactly do you think they'd want to do that? What do they gain from it? What do you even think the WEI is that you think this motivation makes the tiniest bit of sense?

> What do you even think the WEI is that you think this motivation makes the tiniest bit of sense?

First let me add some snippets on what the authors of WEI think can be gained from it:

* This is beneficial for anti-fraud measures. Websites commonly use fingerprinting techniques to try to verify that a real human is using a real device[1]

One of the proposed use cases: Detect non-human traffic in advertising to improve user experience and access to web content* [2]

Another snippet :

we could standardize the set of signals that browsers will receive from attesters, and have one of those signals be whether the attester recommends the browser for sites to trust (based on a well-defined acceptance criteria). As new browsers are introduced, they would need to demonstrate to attesters (a relatively small group) that they pass the bar, but they wouldn't need to convince all the websites in the world [2]

This is clearly an attempt at gatekeeping both web client software and the clients themselves.

> What do they gain from it?

I think we can agree that Google is primarily an advertising and search company. One of the threats to Google's revenue as an advertising company is ad-fraud and this 'anti-fraud' measures protect their bottom-line. Another threat is ad-blocking and though they don't explicitly mention it, the WEI "bar" mentioned above can potentially be used to prevent ad-blocking by denying attestation to clients capable of ad-blocking (either directly or by allowing plugins).

Client attestation also prevents bots(both good & bad bots of all types including new search indexing bots) from accessing websites. This has a nice side-effect for Google that it restricts building a new search engine(a competitor) without its blessing. Search is a gateway to Google's advertising.

> And why exactly do you think they'd want to do that?

Like any product that any company introduces, it is to drive adoption? The more websites use it, the more normalized and legitimate WEI becomes. Once it becomes a standard and an integral part of web, it is easier to dictate terms that keep their position entrenched.

We can argue whether ad-blocking or bots are good or not and whether these concerns are all pure speculation or hyperbole. But once the technical capability is there and it is only the ethical/moral belief of corporate executives( and probability of government intervention) that prevent it, I wouldn't trust them to do the right thing especially when money is involved.

[1] - https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/Ux5h_...

[2] - https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

Re: The boiling frog of digital freedom

#340
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the before-times, [...] You used to get full schematics along with the electronics you bought. And by "get", I do NOT mean that you'd have to ask for them. They'd be shipped WITH the products, on paper. It was a normal part of your purchase, just like the manual.

This blew my mind as a younger person who took an interest in repairing tube radios from the 30's & 40's. One of the first things I realized was how generally easy it was to find schematics of popular brands and models. Some were even pasted right inside the radio shell! I also hack and repair modern stuff, and it is so common to open up a product just to end up staring at an epoxy blob. User manuals hold no mention…

The entire economic system was different. Even something as basic as a radio, fridge or TV cost serious money, so very few people had them in the first place, they expected it to last and be easily repairable, particularly as shipping took a lot of time and was expensive just as well. Farmers living out in the country had it even worse, for them the ability to repair devices literally in the field can be a question that makes their entire business viable or not.

Today? Everything is cheap, you can fedex something across continents in a matter of a few days. When the TV is broken, fuck it, a new one is a click and a day of waiting time away, free delivery included. Computers? Phones? Just the same.

Building products that last or are repairable just isn't competitive enough any more. Yes, there are niches like Fairphone, Framework and Pine, but that's the point: they are niches for nerds who care and are able and willing to spend the money.

On top of that, technology has gotten ever smaller and smaller. Up until a decade or two ago, most electronics was through-hole stuff that even a complete dunderhead could repair with a soldering iron, a bit of solder and some tweezers. Modern SMT? That needs highly specialized machines and an awful lot of knowledge about stuff like temperature ramps, not to mention passive components being as small as a tiny piece of sand. And if you want to verify signal integrity, some random scope won't cut it either at modern high speed buses.

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