Isn't this the compatibility layer that's built into Windows?
Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
331–340 of 424 posts
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is actually what most gpu driver updates are. Instead of devs fixing their games, nvidia calcilated its in their best interest to just fix the game bugs at the gpu driver level and push updates.
Is this done by intercepting the API calls made to the GPU, or by directly modifying the game binary instructions?
Modifying binaries (on disk or in RAM) would be detected by anti cheat mechanisms. Most likely they change how to interpret a certain sequence of API calls or replace shaders with their optimized versions.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even then it might not work because it could rely on a DBus daemon being there. Even a brand new binary might fail because it needs some external program they forgot to add to the dependencies list in the package, so you have to sift through to find the not at all obvious package that provides it. Or something was compiled without some option for unknown reasons so you're just SOL unless you want to compile stuff you…
How is that any different from any other program on any system failing because of a daemon not running? Inter-process communication exists on every operating system. IPC means your program's behaviour can be different depending on what other processes are running. This is not specific to Linux. Your other point is equally as inane. Anything might fail because it requires some external program, or external data files,…
Compiling stuff yourself is generally much harder than one might want it to be be. The instructions might or might not actually work unless you're on a source based distro. It also might take hours. Or days, but the stuff that's big enough to take days generally works out of the box.
Windows has IPC, but doesn't have as heavy of an influence from the Unix philosophy, and Android seems to have even less. More stuff is just built into the OS, it's always going to be there, probably for 20 years.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet Apple has famously broken compatibility on a regular basis. Remember when Apple went from Motorola 68000 to Intel x86? They did it by providing direct support to key companies to port their software, and providing Rosetta for applications that could take the performance hit.
I think you mean “PowerPC to Intel”. 68K was before PPC.
You're right! It's been a long time. There was a 68K to PowerPC, then later Power to Intel, and now Intel to arm64.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#335See also https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Win…
They would likely not have done this today. That fix was a product of its time.
From what I can tell, SimCity had already been released. Many users likely didn't have an Internet connection, and even if they did, there was no auto-update via Steam.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#336It's sad that the windows kernel and API aren't even that bad, but Microsoft insists on shipping as much bloatware and spyware as they can. Do I really have to use a debloater to have a usable OS?
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#337See also https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Win…
This is actually what most gpu driver updates are. Instead of devs fixing their games, nvidia calcilated its in their best interest to just fix the game bugs at the gpu driver level and push updates.
See the infamous story about Quack 3 on ATI Radeon cards.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet Apple has famously broken compatibility on a regular basis. Remember when Apple went from Motorola 68000 to Intel x86? They did it by providing direct support to key companies to port their software, and providing Rosetta for applications that could take the performance hit.
Either extreme works. There's a sour spot (opposite of sweet spot?) in between, where the platform breaks compatibility, but not so predictably that customers remember how to reach their suppliers, and suppliers remember how to update their products.
Yes, as long as the business communicates and executes well and makes the value proposition of the choice clear to their customers, either works. Being backwards-compatible to the beginning of time is not the only choice. My experience in the industry, however, is that most organizations cling to never breaking compatibility, under the flawed belief that it's always simpler or cheaper than planned migrations.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet Apple has famously broken compatibility on a regular basis. Remember when Apple went from Motorola 68000 to Intel x86? They did it by providing direct support to key companies to port their software, and providing Rosetta for applications that could take the performance hit.
I think both are valid strategies, but it's usually a business decision, not a technology one.
They are, but in my experience businesses will tend towards backwards compatibility without adequately weighing the costs of one versus the other. Cargo cult compatibility, so to speak.
Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago
#340See also https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Win…
Counter-example: Soldier of Fortune is broken on modern windows because of a misapplied compatibility hack. Rename the binary and it works with no problems. This is an awful way to implement backwards compatibility. Opaque and ad-hoc. They have been using similar toolset to break competitors applications. The choice of what old version of windows to run the program on is typically to try them one by one. Linux is no…
Never expected someone would bring up the SOF issue on kodern windows. PCgamingwiki FTW.