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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#331

Post by t43562 »

cpursley wrote: post #249
j-pb wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has build more PV capacity in the last three years than the total nuclear capacity it ever build, and the numbers are increasing thanks to regulatory cutbacks by the current government. Meanwhile new nuclear reactors cost 4 times as much as renewables and take decades to build. So stop spreading FUD.

What are the actual numbers? Is PV reliable as nuclear? As cheap as piped natural gas? Can VW build a profitable car and Bosch a washing machine at those rates (vs very strong competitors like South Korea)? Because that’s what keeps the German economy humming (and the EU together).

VW is using renewables for building it's EVs.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#332

Post by rojosewe »

OO000oo wrote: post #287
mainframed wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are. Why wouldn't there be? There are a lot of minorities in Germany, which (sadly have to) accept daily racism. Thankfully, at this point violence against minorities (~800 right extremists violent crimes in 2022 in whole Germany) is not as high such that people consider moving away. And if you get a job there and this is your ticket into immigration, probably a lot of people will accept this to get German citi…

> My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?

He's referring to the difference in wealth between East and West Germany which is arguably the cause of many political and social issues in Germany. The influx of money into the region could reduce the disparity.

My guess is that you are referring to the difference in wealth between India and Germany. I'm not sure that the pearl clutching was helpful. It would have been better to clarify your assumptions or If indeed you were talking about Germany internal issues then clarify how labor trafficking is a factor here. We'll all be better for it.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#333

Post by _Microft »

logifail wrote: post #282
posterboy wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you need automation for machinery in a cutting edge fab, that would be much further in the future? They could ship from Taiwan, so the idea that this is a back up does not sound entirely wrong. Sounds like fan-fiction, too, true enough. AMD is already there and Intel is building in Lower Saxony. Must be something about the region, perhaps the chemistry since the Erzgebirge has a history in mining. Meisner Por…

> Must be something about the region [snip] Following Occam's razor, perhaps it's that it's just cheaper? "The monthly pay ranking of German states is headed by Hamburg with 3,619 euros, followed by Baden-Württemberg with 3,546 euros and Hesse with 3,494 euros. The lowest salaries are received by employees in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania with an average of 2,391 euros. Slightly more is earned in Thuringia with 2,459…

The focus on electronics there goes back to the times of the GDR already when the "VEB Kombinat Robotron" was located in Saxony.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEB_Robotron

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#334

Post by t43562 »

coliveira wrote: post #158
sirius87 wrote: post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

The USA has guaranteed the demise of Taiwan by making it the next target of a global war. Everyone knows that China is not going back on a territory that is theirs by international treaties, and the US has practically declared they will fight to separate Taiwan from China. The only thing that remains for Taiwanese companies is to move from homeland into other countries as a way to survive. Actually, this is probably…

To make Taiwan less critical makes it less attractive as a target - China won't be able to damage the US so much by taking Taiwan. It will be harder for China to force other people to accept their action.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#335

Post by toss1 »

mordae wrote: post #310
toss1 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not just Taiwan's advanced manufacturing that is critical to the free world — an enormous amount of shipping for Japan also goes through the Straits Of Taiwan. This is just part of the reason that the US Navy frequently runs freedom of navigation exercises through those waters. Mere reduction of the criticality of Taiwan's advanced manufacturing will not eliminate Taiwan's geostrategic importance. Plus, the CCP…

So far they don't feel that expansionist. More likely they just don't want US to be able to cut them off from the rest of the world by naval blockade.

"don't feel that expansionist"?!?

Sure, if you ignore their military actions and treaty violations in Tibet, Turkistan (Uyghurs), border conflicts around the Himalyas and India, Russia (border conflict), Korea, Vietnam, everywhere on the "9-dash line", Canada and the US (where they are putting up remote "police stations" to intimidate anyone expressing opinions they dislike)...

CCP has a highly consistent history of being as aggressive and untrustworthy as they can get away with. Anyone trusting them is a fool.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#336

Post by cpursley »

t43562 wrote: post #331
cpursley wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the actual numbers? Is PV reliable as nuclear? As cheap as piped natural gas? Can VW build a profitable car and Bosch a washing machine at those rates (vs very strong competitors like South Korea)? Because that’s what keeps the German economy humming (and the EU together).

VW is using renewables for building it's EVs.

Best of luck to them, they're gonna need it.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#337

Post by PicassoCTs »

coryfklein wrote: post #245
dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

In How Asia Works[0], they contrast how Malaysia tried to modernize by jumping straight to high-tech steel factoris with how South Korea modernized by starting small – basically by making shitty cars – then scaled their way up. Turns out the latter simply works much better. My take, if you want to have a bleeding edge semiconductor industry in your country, first start by trying to build a boring, vanilla, outdated s…

Ahistoric nonsense. Its just that south-Korea is at a empire gradient. One empire borders another empire. Which either means you gets you eternal proxy wars - or you get propped up, by the competition of the empires and can milk that sweet soft-power gradient for benefits. You get preferable trade-agreements, even if you use protectionism. You get other sweet deals. Look at all the countries who made it, dwelling along the fault lines of the past and the present. Germany. Turkey. Austria. Italy.Hungary. Greece. Japan. China. South-Korea. Soon Ukraine. The list goes on and the reason has little todo with strategy. You cant plan for location.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#338

Post by blueflow »

Herring wrote: post #324
flo123456 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still living here I must point out that you are pointing an equally one sided picture. While all of what you say is true and problematic, there are people from all over the world living in Dresden and some parts (especially Neustadt) are politically rather left leaning.

That's not how it works. There can be a lot of good people, but all you need is one in-your-face racist encounter to ruin your decade. It's like how even a rumor of a shark will keep you firmly on the beach.

Do an s/racist/homophobic/ and you have a justification for being a jerk to muslim immigrants.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#339

Post by blueflow »

jupp0r wrote: post #227
dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist right. I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. I eventually moved away (among other reasons) because I didn't want my kids to grow up in this environme…

I only ever see crying about racism in Dresden in the Media and on HN.

Is this an actual thing or just something pushed up because victimhood is idolized too much? The blue collar workers here are diverse af.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#340

Post by logifail »

_Microft wrote: post #333
logifail wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Must be something about the region [snip] Following Occam's razor, perhaps it's that it's just cheaper? "The monthly pay ranking of German states is headed by Hamburg with 3,619 euros, followed by Baden-Württemberg with 3,546 euros and Hesse with 3,494 euros. The lowest salaries are received by employees in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania with an average of 2,391 euros. Slightly more is earned in Thuringia with 2,459…

The focus on electronics there goes back to the times of the GDR already when the "VEB Kombinat Robotron" was located in Saxony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEB_Robotron

> The focus on electronics there [..]

Can you expand on this claim?

(I'm deliberately resisting quoting sources listing German regions top exports!)

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