Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

servethehome.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 526 posts

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#331

Post by bzzzt »

pshirshov wrote: post #320
oefrha wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the entry level workstation line today is Mac Studio (starting at $1999), not Mac Pro, which is strictly top end. The $6999 model of today is not equivalent to the old entry models in any way, unless you just go by bulkiness.

Why "not equivalent"? Both are top-tier workstation options of their times. But... the UX of PowerMac G5 is lot more pleasant and everything feels lot more responsive than on modern Pros. Probably because of lack of signature verifications, SIP, RPC with Apple servers. But still, those machines _feel_ better.

> Why "not equivalent"?

The Mac pro is just a Mac studio with a "PCI express expansion chassis" bolted on which is of no use to most people. The price says Apple doesn't want to sell a lot of those machines, they probably only fitted a M2 CPU in an old Mac pro chassis to tick off the 'entire range migrated to Apple silicon' promise.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#332

Post by bzzzt »

whynotminot wrote: post #328
diffeomorphism wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still leaves the ram upgrade and thus 929€ at the current apple store price for 16gb ram, 256gb storage, 1 gbit ethernet. Which again, is an okay deal for a large sized nuc, but at $1000 that is about par for the course.

Again, we're talking about entry level creators. I have been talking purely about the entry level models this whole time. I know what they come with. I know the specs, the upsides, and the downsides. The entry-level models are great. The best entry-level machines Apple has ever offered. They would slot into any indie-creators workflow very well. Would I recommend some upgrades if they can afford them? Yes. Some more…

The experience of a low-end memory mac configuration is mostly ok, but lots of people are used to comparing storage and memory directly and have the impression you get 'less for more' when shopping Apple.

In a sense, that's true when you're using badly written non-native software (Slack, Teams, anything Java based ;) ) and you really should try out if your apps fit or upgrade right away. But even an 8Gb mac will happily run iMovie, Garageband etc for a student project or hobby use.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#333

Post by dangus »

Turskarama wrote: post #240
dangus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think a lot of people still buy desktops outside of the gaming segment. I would make a bet that the MacBook Air outsells both the iMac and Mac mini by a ratio of 10 to 1.

Maybe they should though. A lot of people buy a laptop just to only ever use it on their desk and never actually take it anywhere. A desktop computer with equivalent performance will generally be several hundred dollars cheaper and run quieter as well.

Have you actually looked at the price of pre-built desktops lately?

Check out all the big computer manufacturers like Dell and HP. Go to their “cheap desktops” section (e.g., Dell Inspiron).

Focusing on Dell, the cheapest one I see is $499 and the specs are a 13th gen i5, Intel UHD 730, 8GB of RAM, 512GB SSD. Bring your own monitor!

For laptops, the Inspiron 15 for $430 gets you 12GB RAM, 512GB SSD, 11th gen core i5, Iris Xe graphics.

Why am I buying that desktop instead of the laptop? What is my motivation?

Look at Apple and the Mac mini will save you $400 over a MacBook Air but you’ll need a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and webcam/microphone.

In the case of Apple, the desktop is literally louder because the only Apple system with a fanless design is the MacBook Air, and you get a minimal performance advantage for having a desktop because all Apple’s chips are based on the processor inside your iPhone.

Desktops just don’t have a price advantage because nobody wants them, so there’s no economy of scale.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#334

Post by whynotminot »

bzzzt wrote: post #332
whynotminot wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, we're talking about entry level creators. I have been talking purely about the entry level models this whole time. I know what they come with. I know the specs, the upsides, and the downsides. The entry-level models are great. The best entry-level machines Apple has ever offered. They would slot into any indie-creators workflow very well. Would I recommend some upgrades if they can afford them? Yes. Some more…

The experience of a low-end memory mac configuration is mostly ok, but lots of people are used to comparing storage and memory directly and have the impression you get 'less for more' when shopping Apple. In a sense, that's true when you're using badly written non-native software (Slack, Teams, anything Java based ;) ) and you really should try out if your apps fit or upgrade right away. But even an 8Gb mac will happ…

> lots of people are used to comparing storage and memory directly and have the impression you get 'less for more' when shopping Apple.

Yeah, I feel like most people in these conversations are sort of in "grocery store mode" -- sitting in an aisle comparing the ingredients of one jar of mayo versus another jar of mayo from a competing brand.

It's just not that simple anymore with Apple's new SoCs. What Apple is doing with its combo of core performance, unified memory setup, specialized compute blocks on the SoC, and the overall thermal efficiency which allows all of this to just run and run without throttling all that much--it adds up to way more than the sum of its parts. You really have to use it in your daily life to believe it and feel the difference.

I still have a mix of Intel machines and Apple Silicon machines for my work and personal life, and it's just so immediately apparent the latency difference in usage. Apple Silicon feels and runs so much better.

Sure, would I recommend more than 8GB of RAM? Yes. More SSD is better? Of course. But Apple Silicon in even its thinnest entry-level configuration is an auto-recommend for me. And the prices at that entry-level are so, so reasonable for what you're getting.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#335

Post by Farfignoggen »

So this is just another OEM market that Intel does not want to be an OEM in and for Mini Desktop PCs that for the Most part Utilize BGA Packaged "Mobile" Processors. And BeeLink and Minisforum/others do have Intel Based Options and have sometimes even used the NUC/NUC "Canyon" branding for those OEMs' Intel processor based options.

So maybe Intel can Keep the NUC Branding around for its Mini desktop PC OEM Partners to utilize and even some of that NUC "Canyon" IP that Intel has developed can be lent to Intel's OEM partners there to make use of ODM to OEM Style in any Intel based offerings from any OEM partners there.

AMD's made a lot of headway there with its Ryzen APUs in Minisforum/BeeLink Mini desktop PCs but that's more because of the Integrated Graphics than any x86 CPU cores. And now there are Ryzen 7040 series Mini Desktop PCs from BeeLink/Minisforum using those "Mobile" Ryzen BGA packaged APU variants that have been allotted 65W cTDPs by the OEMs and that's the same cTDP(65W) that used to be only allocated for the Socket Packaged Ryzen G Series desktop APUs that are more DIY friendly there than BGA Packaged APUs.

So OEMs will take over there for Intel and Intel can offer them the same Engineering In Kind sort of Assistance that Intel offers its Laptop OEM Partners there and Intel actually becomes a Laptop ODM of sorts to the Laptop OEMs where Intel designs a reference laptop at Intel's expense(ODM Style) for the Laptop OEMs to take that design and rebrand that as their own with minor value added additions for market segmentation there to sell to consumers. So Intel is no longer a NUC OEM directly but has given that over entirely to the Intel NUC OEM partners there just like on Intel processor based OEM laptops.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#336

Post by Aromasin »

berkle4455 wrote: post #227
Aromasin wrote: post #140

Funny enough, I predicted this in a previous HZ comment 3 months ago when they cut their server systems business. > "My guess is that they're cutting the portfolio down to feature only chipsets and add-in cards. Just CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, ASICs, networking. It makes sense if anything - it really focuses on their core business. No more side-projects with questionable profitability. In the last 2 years since Pat Gelsinger…

> If any hedge funds are looking for analysts, I'm always open to offers... $INTC has done a whole lot of nothing for the past 9 months, I don’t think any hedge funds care short or long.

I just said that as joke; you couldn't get me into finance unless you had a gun to my head. I do think long though, Intel makes for an interesting investment. It plays in about the 70th percentile for stock volatility for the year, which for a name like Intel is quite surprising. Analysts put it somewhere between -50% and +100% by this time next year. I've read of hedge funds making big bets on way smaller spreads than that. They're 25% YTD, so it's by know means "nothing".

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#337

Post by whynotminot »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #282
whynotminot wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has seemingly intentionally priced themselves out of reach of smaller and indie creative-types I don't think this take makes any sense. Sure, you can spec out an insanely expensive Mac today. That's always been the case. But with Apple Silicon, there's actually never been a better price to performance ratio at the bottom end of their lineup, perhaps in Apple's entire history. An entry-level Mac Mini or MacBoo…

> I don't think this take makes any sense. Sure, you can spec out an insanely expensive Mac today. That's always been the case. Yes, of course - but historically Apple's MacPros (and G3, G4, and G5 PowerMacs before that) had a fairly reasonable entry-prices - but in recent years (especially since 2013) the entry-price of Apple's workstation-tier machines has risen sharply over inflation: In 2005, Apple advertised[1]…

> today's equivalent: the MacPro, sells at an eyewatering $6,999[2].

Others have already called you out on this, but are you being intentionally misleading to bolster your point, or just unaware of the Mac Studio's configuration options versus the Mac Pro?

The Mac Studio is effectively the new Pro. It has literally the same chip (Ultra) as the Pro for thousands of dollars less, and also offers another still very performant configuration (Max) for even less money. The Pro now only serves a very small niche that needs PCIe.

If you were to use the Mac Studio in your price comparisons, your point basically evaporates.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#338

Post by tracker1 »

glimshe wrote: post #180
tracker1 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's the form factor, I think it's more about competing with their own customers. There are similar offerings (including AMD based) from several other vendors. I've been far more interested in the AMD based ones the past few gen... currently using a MiniForum model with a 5900HX for home server duties.

There are some great Chinese mini PCs on Amazon, many of them using Intel processors. Some of these are very compelling against ARM mini PCs such as the Raspberry Pi 400.

Absolutely... the RPi scalping over the pandemic is what turned me on to these things... There are some Intel options around $200, that include case, power and many have memory and storage. When the 8gb RPi was close to that bare board, was definitely worth switching to something materially faster.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#339

Post by oefrha »

pshirshov wrote: post #320
oefrha wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the entry level workstation line today is Mac Studio (starting at $1999), not Mac Pro, which is strictly top end. The $6999 model of today is not equivalent to the old entry models in any way, unless you just go by bulkiness.

Why "not equivalent"? Both are top-tier workstation options of their times. But... the UX of PowerMac G5 is lot more pleasant and everything feels lot more responsive than on modern Pros. Probably because of lack of signature verifications, SIP, RPC with Apple servers. But still, those machines _feel_ better.

An entry level cheese grater or trash can definitely wasn’t top end of their times. Middle end parts in a top end case, sure.

Re: Intel exiting the PC business as it stops investment in the Intel NUC

#340

Post by undersuit »

Aromasin wrote: post #140

Funny enough, I predicted this in a previous HZ comment 3 months ago when they cut their server systems business. > "My guess is that they're cutting the portfolio down to feature only chipsets and add-in cards. Just CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, ASICs, networking. It makes sense if anything - it really focuses on their core business. No more side-projects with questionable profitability. In the last 2 years since Pat Gelsinger…

As an everyday user of an Intel Compute Stick I can empathize with this.

I think you're wrong about the Intel portfolio though; Arc GPUs are another line that is going to be unceremoniously cut in a few years.

I mean I could be wrong, but Intel has gotta be looking at Nvidia's Hopper or AMD's MI300 DATA oriented architectures and wondering why the Arc team is trying to make $750 gaming computers. Xe GPUs are going a different direction from consumer Arc GPUs already anyways.

Post reply on HN