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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason slashdot is no longer relevant as the go-to tech discussion site is just because everyone who loves hating on "modern" things like CoC stayed, and everyone else left. These days it would be more strange to see a major project NOT have a CoC than seeing one. There is drama and politics in any large org whether or not there is a CoC or not.

When I read about codes of conduct like this I worry about humnan relations. Does remote work cause the need for CoC? The over prescription of interactions seem like sci-fi to me. I haven’t worked in an office since the last millennium.

> Does remote work cause the need for CoC?

No, CoCs became a trend way before covid made remote work possible for the masses. They initially were demanded by project members after high-profile scandals of some kind, usually racist or otherwise discriminatory bullshit, sexual assault on conferences or bullying (Linus Torvalds for example used to be infamous for his language), and then other projects (or their members) wanted ones as well as a preventive measure for the future.

For what it's worth, I dislike CoCs because many of them are written with the assumption that people will behave like utter trash without being explicitly told not to and I grew up with the old "Don't be an asshole" rule [1]... but given what happened in the past where people were clearly incapable of not being assholes and communities having splintered over it, they seem to be inevitable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_No_Asshole_Rule

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#332
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they still use the term socially awkward to describe nerdy people who work in IT? I thought it was quite on point, at least back in the days.

I'm not sure tbh (English being my second language), but I guess I would? I mean, we were all very young and very nerdy and thought it was pretty cool to be having dinner with RMS himself. Still, by our nerdy standards, he stood out as being a bit awkward – perhaps partly due to the language and cultural differences (even though he spoke pretty decent Spanish).

Maybe he is on the spectrum. I probably am, although I have never bothered with a diagnosis.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#334

I disagree with the general sentiment in this thread that this is a useless immature move. Sure, Crab will almost certainly not replace Rust, but that is not the goal. The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. This is similar to a strike where ultimately your goal is not to destroy the company or to quit and leave, but to achieve better conditions. In both cases it sometimes works and somet…

CrabLang doesn't want to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions. They 100% support all the decisions the Rust Project made.

CrabLang was created to get people to out themselves who hate Rust and want to see it fail.

Anyways...

> The ultimate objective is to influence Rust stakeholders' decisions.

That's not what this fork says is the objective.

https://crablang.org/

> We simply want to use [Rust] while retaining the ability to create content and promote its name, logo, and other assets however we please, without the limitations imposed by a trademark policy.

The Trademark Policy

https://foundation.rust-lang.org/policies/logo-policy-and-me...

> The most basic rule is that the Rust trademarks cannot be used in ways that appear (to a casual observer) official, affiliated, or endorsed by the Rust project or Rust Foundation, unless you have written permission from the Rust Foundation.

So, from what I gather, CrabLang opposes this.

In which case, CrabLang wanted to use the Rust trademarks to deceive people into thinking it's endorsed by the project and foundation.

Which is an odd stance to take, because that's them saying they want people to use CrabLang to deceive people into thinking CrabLang endorses things it does not. ;)

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#336

This happened a while ago and was related to the trademark/copyright issue. It’s an immature move and I can’t take this seriously. All this does is creating unnecessary drama surrounding the Rust foundation.

The ongoing drama emerging from the leadership / foundation causes real damage to the language. I'm not sure if I like this move of forking Rust, but something has to change. And the change must be as visible as the drama to help Rust regain the lost reputation.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#338
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but Stallman's non-purity related bad qualities are a problem for his own mission. Eg, Stallman is reported as creeping women out in the link above. That has nothing to do with his uncompromising ideals regarding software. So maybe Stallman could quietly retire to some sort of metaphorical ivory tower, and keep producing uncompromising ideology, which could be then evangelized by somebody less creepy. There's n…

That would be ideal, yes. But there also needs to be a bit of a culture change away from Stallmanism ("we want absolute Software Freedom now and anything even slightly short of that is unethical !) to a more pragmatic attitude and outlook. This starts with simple things like not picking fights with the BSD projects only because they allow non-free software in ports and not alienating many lead developers of the most…

Lol, this has been said over and over basically since GNU existed. "You need to compromise!!!11!!one!".

FSF and GNU are not about compromises. If they were, they'd have stuck to the original Unix distributions and all their licensing grey areas. Instead they didn't, and the world is better for it. Why should they change now...?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#339

I've invested in a fair bit of time in learning Rust fairly recently -- asking naively, but is this sort of thing something which could realistically compromise the future of the language?

This fork is just a symbolic act. However, the ongoing drama around Rust creates real damage.

Why should someone invest in a language where there're constantly drama about social or political issues? The focus should be on improving the language?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#340
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stallman can think or do whatever he wants, but he is not and has never been an effective advocate. Stallman has been right more often then wrong and has made his points forcefully, consistent and without compromise over decades . He's backed up his words with his deeds, has contributed an incredible amount of software and has been a very important factor in jumpstarting the free software movement. He provided a fr…

Someone who doesn't alienate a significant part of the community would be a good start (which all occurred long before the whole business with the Minsky comments). That he jump-started things or "is right" isn't actually all that important for effective advocacy; if I were to start my reply with "you asshole!" then you're not very likely to listen to what I have to say. To be honest I don't understand how people fai…

"Nobody listens to him" and still the likes of Microsoft now develop predominantly in the open.

You don't need to persuade everyone, sometimes it's just enough to witness your truth. Ask christians.

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