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The Never Married, a New Normal

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#331

Post by Jcowell »

zwaps wrote: post #292
ameminator wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm certain this vulnerability does bring value to some, especially people like the original commenter. However, consider that it's possible to gain something similar in value without certain risks? My wealth is not my most important part of my life but it is valuable. Why should I risk the ability to retire, to travel as well as the security of finances, when I find so much meaning in the world already? Why do I nee…

The risk of marriage is what makes the commitment meaningful. Of course, you can always substitute for marriage with other forms of commitment in partnerships, marriage is just a particular choice. In your writing, however, it rather appears to me that you do not see the value in committing to another person at all - in whatever shape or form. In that case, I would say that the desire for marriage is likely to remain…

> In your writing, however, it rather appears to me that you do not see the value in committing to another person at all - in whatever shape or form. In that case, I would say that the desire for marriage is likely to remain an enigma to you.

No I think his problem is putting his assets on the line in order to have a commitment to which he think is ridiculous when he could just simply, ya know, commit.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#332

Post by lotsofpulp »

lapcat wrote: post #304
doix wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d spent decades living only for myself, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it Interestingly, this is why I broke up with a fairly long term partner. I just wanted to do what I want when I wanted to do it. We didn't have any kids, so that was easy. But I lost a bunch of money from our shared house/possessions, I just let them have almost everything because I didn't care too much. Maybe I did it in the w…

> Maybe I did it in the wrong order, and if I spent decades doing what I wanted first, things would have been different. Probably, yes.

In my cohort, there seem to be a ton of people who have spend roughly 2 decades doing what they want to, and do not seem to want to give that up ever.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#333

Post by red-iron-pine »

ameminator wrote: post #250
lapcat wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who probably doesn't like me very much anyways This feels like a straw man, or straw woman, as the case may be. Why would you even consider marrying someone who probably doesn't like you very much? And why would they consider marrying you? (He says, fresh off watching the finale of Succession.)

It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. However, you should make your own judgement call based off of your own experiences. Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study).

> It's a personal judgement based on personal experience.

ITT: parent poster is an unlikable jerk. or thinks they are, anyway.

But you can marry someone you like, and courtship periods -- plus the modern "live together for a while and try it out" thing -- means you can find someone you like.

Plus they're your spouse; your job is to try to keep them (sorta) happy.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#334

Post by lotsofpulp »

ameminator wrote: post #250
lapcat wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who probably doesn't like me very much anyways This feels like a straw man, or straw woman, as the case may be. Why would you even consider marrying someone who probably doesn't like you very much? And why would they consider marrying you? (He says, fresh off watching the finale of Succession.)

It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. However, you should make your own judgement call based off of your own experiences. Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study).

> Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study).

This goes down a lot as you go up the socioeconomic ladder:

https://flowingdata.com/2021/05/04/divorce-rates-and-income/

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#335

Post by 35997279 »

the_omegist wrote: post #287
jeroenhd wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems very biased to me since it's often that both parents make career sacrifices, not just one. With adoption, maybe, but carrying and bearing a child has a life-altering impact on a woman's body. It's not like you can give birth and go back to the office on Monday. It takes months to recover and even after that you likely won't be at full performance like you were before the pregnancy. Common side effects li…

> As a man, I seriously don't know how women do it, and how many even do it multiple times. Are you aware you are praising women for something any female in any species does ? Sure it is not always easy, but if a woman has children it's (unless some quite obvious reasons) because the benefits outweighs the inconveniences. This is not some heroic deed. > The notion that two people make equal sacrifices when they have…

Has anyone told the women that? Because they don’t seem to think so. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/aug/04/men-wom...

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#336

Post by cableshaft »

anonzzzies wrote: post #260
adam_arthur wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why commingle finances at all? A large percentage of divorces are due to financial disagreements... joint accounts have proven to be a failed model at scale. If you want to share money, have separate accounts and transfer money between them as needed/on a schedule. No room for impropriety/mistrust. Everybody has autonomy. If we choose to be realistic, rather than idealistic, we would recognize that a large percentage…

But now you are putting a price on the others time. Let’s say you make nothing yourself (starving artist, stay at home parent etc etc) and your cohabiting partner makes a few 100k, how do you decide what your time is worth vs your partner. Or your partner inherited a few million and does nothing but also feels they have to do nothing because they bring the money. When you separate, you might end up with nothing after…

We have a joint account but we also have our own individual accounts. The joint account is for emergency savings and paying the big bills, like mortgage/car/utilities, and we both put money into it each paycheck to cover the bills and increase the savings.

But anything in our personal accounts we can't see and don't monitor (I don't need to know exactly how much she spends on planners and crafts, but I know it's a lot, and she doesn't need to know exactly how much I spend on board/video games, but she knows it's a lot).

We also put money into our 401ks (I max mine out, she's getting closer to doing so) and I do additional investing on my own account, which I let her know how well it's doing every once in a while. I would love for her to do more investing besides 401k, even if just a little bit to get some understanding of how it works, but she doesn't want to have to think about it, so I handle it.

Periodically we'll have discussions on recalibrating how much to put into the joint, or some months we'll have the 'this month has more expenses than usual, we should probably go out to eat less and buy less things this month', but that's about it.

Seems to work out pretty well for us.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#337

Post by red-iron-pine »

jacooper wrote: post #137
ameminator wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can sacrifice my ego through meditation and acts of charity/volunteer work. No need to risk half of my current assets and future income on the whims of some potentially capricious other person, who probably doesn't like me very much anyways. Good luck to you, however.

I heard you can avoid that, Using some kind of pre marriage financial agreement, does that actually exist? I don't livs in the U.S. so I don't know.

pre-nups are a thing but come with strings, and are not unilaterally enforceable without certain considerations. both sides usually have to have their own lawyer -- often not cheap -- and there are often ways to break a pre-nup.

state laws have an impact as well. a California pre-nup ain't the same as Kansas.

they're also not really useful for many people; yeah if you've got a $4MM startup and a few assets it's good to CYA, but the average household of 2 renters and middling salary might not benefit, while both sides pay out the nose for lawyers.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#338

Post by cultofmetatron »

saghm wrote: post #271
cultofmetatron wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not sure if you're implying that every single husband and wife pair is comprised of a man with more financial resources or if you're somehow convinced that divorce will always screw over a husband and benefit a wife regardless of their incomes, but either way, it sounds like whoever you think you would have married otherwise is the one who's dodging a bullet.

> it sounds like whoever you think you would have married otherwise is the one who's dodging a bullet.

Thats some next level bullshit. you're saying that because I'm scared of getting into a marriage, that she's the one "who's dodging a bullet"

Put another way, if a woman said she was scared of getting married, would you tell her that the man she would have married is "dodging a bullet?"

obviously not, it would be an incredibly messed up thing to say right?

This kind of "empathy" for men is precisely why its dangerous for men to get into marriage. I'll sit on my money and find other ways to find happiness in life thanks.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#340

Post by emodendroket »

realjhol wrote: post #276
Dalewyn wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom is equivalent to responsibility. If you offload your responsibility of paying your expenses upon another, you surrender that freedom to them. If a couple wants equality, have separate finances and incomes and make agreements as to how any financial matters that must be handled together should be handled.

But the members of a married couple are never "equal" - whatever that even means.

It seems strange to say that confidently if you don’t even know what it means.
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