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Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

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Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#331

Post by oblio »

Dalewyn wrote: post #300
oblio wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Source? 2. Toyota is behind. Check what the Chinese and Germans are doing. Though you can't really do that since most of those cars aren't sold in the US.

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/02/17/1725220/tesla-teard... >What stands out most is Tesla's integrated central control unit, or "full self-driving computer." Also known as Hardware 3, this little piece of tech is the company's biggest weapon in the burgeoning EV market. It could end the auto industry supply chain as we know it. One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declar…

The thing is, these PR puff pieces aka submarine articles: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

are all everywhere for Tesla, like they are for Apple. I've seen entire sites dissect the Apple Watch or Apple mobile cameras, or Teslas.

Their competitors are very comparable yet you have to hand it to Tesla, their behind the scenes PR game is through the roof.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#332

Post by jillesvangurp »

newaccount74 wrote: post #105

Since other car makers are trying to cover the market by diversifying their model lineup, this is hardly surprising. I mean, just take BMW, despite seemingly not taking EVs seriously at first, they already have more different EV models to choose from than Tesla. So even if BMW would overtake Tesla in total EV sales, the Model Y would probably still get to keep the "best selling car" title...

What sets Tesla apart right now is their manufacturing capability. They are out-competing everyone else right now on cost and scale. That's the difference between having really juicy margins on their cars produced large volume and the likes of BMW, Ford, and others actually selling EVs at a loss in comparatively tiny volumes. Every time Tesla lowers their pricing, everybody else takes a big hit.

And while Tesla takes the crown here, they aren't the only new kid on the block that is extremely successful in the EV market. The likes of BYD and other Chinese manufacturers aren't far behind and are following a similar strategy to Tesla. Cheap Chinese exports are going to do similar things to the car industry that the Japanese car industry did in the eighties. The likes of Toyota of course were part of that move and it decimated the rest of the industry. That looks like it might happen again. Except this time it's Chinese manufacturers leading here; and Tesla of course.

The game right now isn't producing more concept cars, quick and dirty ICE conversions, or yet another over priced premium SUV ev but actually tackling the less premium mass market segment. This is only possible after companies nail cost and efficiency. And most of them are nowhere close to doing that. Tesla is ramping up to start selling millions of more modestly priced cars. BYD is already shipping loads of those in China. They are ready now.

Toyota particularly is far behind. The only EVs they have in the market are actually made by BYD. These are Toyota in name only. It's a BYD with a Toyota sticker slapped on. Reason: until they replaced their CEO recently, they were stubbornly pursuing things like hybrids and hydrogen cars and miscalculating how long they had to make that work. EVs priced around 20-30K$ are going to be a big problem for Toyota. Most of their remaining ICE market is at or above that price point and EVs with lower cost of ownership and a lower price tag can do some serious damage to that market. That's why they are partnering with BYD while they are figuring that out.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#333

Post by ciropantera »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #293
elif wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think the model Y isn't solid or reliable? I'm super happy with my 2021. I've also driven my Nissan Leaf since 2013 with zero shop visits outside of tire shops. A negative comparison on reliability with ICE just does not compute to me.

I've also driven my Nissan Leaf since 2013 with zero shop visits outside of tire shops. Wah. That is crazy. The total cost of ownership for that car must be incredibly low. Think about what that means for the future of all auto mechanics. Will there be far fewer? Anecdote about a Nissan Leaf: I'll never forget being on holiday in Sri Lanka, walking through a tiny, countryside village. I was on my way to see a Buddhis…

> Think about what that means for the future of all auto mechanics. Will there be far fewer?

Definitely. This is one of the reasons why dealerships are reluctant with EVs: apparently a big chunk of their profits come from servicing the cars they sell.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#335

Post by fps-hero »

tapoxi wrote: post #247
resolutebat wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in the market, go for a couple of test drives. The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, while Teslas are designed from ground up as EVs and it shows throughout in ways big and small. We were originally leaning towards getting a Polestar, but the difference between driving one and a Tesla is night and day.

I drive an ID4 after looking at the Model Y. It's a ground up EV and a solid competitor. As a family crossover it's great. The software is pretty dumb but that's mostly avoided thanks to wireless Android Auto and CarPlay. What won me over: Rear window was easier to see through, the above mentioned Carplay/AA support, not a fan of Tesla's extreme minimalism extending to things like air vents, brand tainted by Musk.

I test drove a Polestar 2, what are these car designers thinking with rear view visibility!

The between the rear headrests and huge slanted C-pillars you had a tiny sheet of paper sized opening to see out. I honestly thought the mirrors were adjusted wrong and were looking at the roof. Couple that with a half-baked 360 reversing camera that turned every obstacle into a trapezoidal blur, reversing parking that car between two other cars at the end of the drive was terrifying experience.

Nice car though.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#336

Post by caf »

newaccount74 wrote: post #105

Since other car makers are trying to cover the market by diversifying their model lineup, this is hardly surprising. I mean, just take BMW, despite seemingly not taking EVs seriously at first, they already have more different EV models to choose from than Tesla. So even if BMW would overtake Tesla in total EV sales, the Model Y would probably still get to keep the "best selling car" title...

It's easy to say "it's hardly surprising" now, but if you'd predicted this 4 or 5 years ago, plenty of people would have been surprised.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#337

Post by hnav »

ChatGTP wrote: post #101

Imagine if Toyota would've just made a simple, but nicely build electric car 3-5 years ago. Pretty foolish mistake.

but Toyota sells more cars in a year than Tesla has in the past decade? And no, if they made an EV it probably wouldn't be selling like hotcakes, because an EV is largely an irrational choice for most people (looking at you, guys chilling in your cars on top of the Target in Laurel Heights in SF, waiting for that 80% in 30 minutes) and Toyota isn't good at making something super desirable. All that aside, most workhorses running around today, shuttling passengers and food delivery seem to be old, clapped out Priuses. Can't argue with 45mpg and ultra low running costs, barring the occasional stolen catalytic converter.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#338

Post by fomine3 »

borissk wrote: post #130
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the Prius prime is a legitimately pretty great hybrid, but it took them a shocking long time to get there.

A hybrid car is a very complicated machine - more so than an EV, a turbo petrol or a diesel.

It's advantage for Toyota. They really should pushed PHEVs earlier like 2015, before Tesla M3 was sold.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#339

Post by neuronic »

oblio wrote: post #295
elif wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota recently disassembled a model Y to study it and this is what their executives said: "Taking the skin off the Model Y, it was truly a work of art. It's unbelievable," "It's a whole different manufacturing philosophy," while another added, “We need a new platform designed as a blank-sheet EV."

1. Source? 2. Toyota is behind. Check what the Chinese and Germans are doing. Though you can't really do that since most of those cars aren't sold in the US.

German here. Cars are one hallmark of our economy. We are behind as well. The Chinese are absolutely crushing it in Asia and Middle East now.

Volkswagen had a market share of ICE cars of ~20%, for EVs it's now closer to 1%. EVs are way easier to build and a lot of Chinese companies are doing it successfully. They are offering cheaper EVs. They are selling in Mideast/Asia and now start to enter Europe as well.

None of these cars is particularly bad - while I'd still take the Korean EVs before anything else today, the Chinese are coming. German manufacturers only produce premium level cars few people can afford and they produce them badly. ID.3 is too expensive for its segment and too much of the car just doesnt work well.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#340

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #332
newaccount74 wrote: post #105

Since other car makers are trying to cover the market by diversifying their model lineup, this is hardly surprising. I mean, just take BMW, despite seemingly not taking EVs seriously at first, they already have more different EV models to choose from than Tesla. So even if BMW would overtake Tesla in total EV sales, the Model Y would probably still get to keep the "best selling car" title...

What sets Tesla apart right now is their manufacturing capability. They are out-competing everyone else right now on cost and scale. That's the difference between having really juicy margins on their cars produced large volume and the likes of BMW, Ford, and others actually selling EVs at a loss in comparatively tiny volumes. Every time Tesla lowers their pricing, everybody else takes a big hit. And while Tesla takes…

Is Toyota BYD’s JV partner in China? I think the BYD taxi I rode in was based off a Camry body, but it seems their JV partner is GAC, so it isn’t clear how that came to be.
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