"adding that it is even worse because the UK is no longer part of the EU."
Ireland & Malta are so tired of being forgotten.
(Yes these countries have other languages, so does the UK.)
Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
331–340 of 605 posts
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t care which language it is, but pick one as the official one. English makes sense economically. German cannot happen because the past. Spanish or German or French are all fine, but of course it cannot be agreed on. So English makes it easier as well for that reasons maybe.
Pick Italian. Beautiful language, lots of common words with most languages and I don’t think any non-EU countries use it. And if everything else fails, you start using your hands to communicate. Mid 40s here and wouldn’t mind at all to start learning Italian if it was the common language of EU.
One issue is that it relies on phrases a lot - so much so that Google Translate has a hard time figuring out the intended meaning.
Also, like everything in Italy, phrases used depend on the region.
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#333Whether the UK is part of the EU or not is irrelevant to using english as a mean of communication between europeans. I remember a study from the French ministry of education which estimated for each language, what was the percentage of the EU population, to which it is not a native language, that studied it as a foreign language either in high school or university. German and italian are in the 15-20% range, french a…
Indeed. Every good European should speak two languages - the language of their European country, and English. Note that this is British English as much or perhaps more than US English - many Europeans have studied or worked in the UK, and their native English speaking contacts are likely to be British.
Especially since the advent of Erasmus, a lot of Europeans have learned to use English when communicating with other second-language speakers though. And beyond Brexut and americanized media contributes to British English becoming less present and relevant with every passing year.
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
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From what vantage point are you speaking? I’ve been online for 17 years and so I’ve been very aware of the trend of “wokeism” and other things like that. I also live in the country known as Europe. Yet in “real life” I have never, ever encountered a woke, virtue-signalling stereotype. The closest I came was some other guy’s experience that he relayed to me. And that goes for other American (or not) things that also a…
> Yet in “real life” I have never, ever encountered a woke, virtue-signalling stereotype.
I can’t imagine most Americans have either (though the numbers may be different on this particular board).
I think most Americans are aware that the primary culture wars going on right now are fairly divorced from everyday life.
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not a version of USA culture (not American), it's the propagation of Capitalism, of the "american" dream, of USA exceptionalism. The idea that their army is the coolest and will save us from aliens, that their bilionaires (oligarchs) are secretly superheroes, that foreign leaders are crooks secretly plotting to conquer the world and so on.
>The idea that their army is the coolest and will save us from aliens, that their bilionaires are secretly superheroes, that foreign leaders are crooks secretly plotting to conquer the world and so on. These are Projections
As an American, I’m not so sure.
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#336On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…
I don't think its necessarily about the culture itself here, its merely a cheap populist tactic to rabble-rouse among a nation that has a rich history and struggles to handle the fact that its present isn't at that zenith. France do a lot of this sort of thing too. I would argue that belittling cultural preservation demonstrates deep Anglo-centric bias. While its fine for lulz, I worry that you're being sincere. Try…
I'm Italian, living in Canada, the reason why I'm attached to my primary language is because I know the most vocabulary and language usage.
Aside from that, it's an unfortunate language, since you can't use to communicate anywhere else beside Italy.
We tend to forget that the main purpose of a language is communication, when invoking cultural issues. If you have to penalize usage of English words, you are doing something really wrong.
And when I talk about work it's really hard for me to do in my home language. Some words have no translation or incorrect translation (I work as software developer), which incidentally is the same situation my Italian teacher faced when trying to explain some concepts that had a translation in Italian, but the original latin word had a "wider meaning" that wasn't captured by the translation.
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#337Trying to prevent some sort of western style gentrification? How come japan doesn’t have this problem?
I don't consider it a problem, language alone is an extremely superficial indicator of culture - see my other comment. But japan is a good example- maybe that's what you're driving at - because the language is full of english loan words. That's a big part of what the katakana characters are for - fitting predominantly English words into the japanese syllables. トイレ ミーティング ダンス パーティ フライドポテト Etc. As you say, it doesn't i…
I came to say this, the Japanese have the solution, they use a different alphabet for imported foreign words although less so for Chinese. Even better they change the pronunciation and drop syllables to make the imports easy to say. Maybe other languages can invent some kind of stylizing like italics to indicate words are foreign.
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#338Ironically, Italy's remote work visa has some of the most lax requirements in the world, and speaking Italian isn't one of them. > While the legislation encompasses all foreign languages, it is particularly geared at “Anglomania” or use of English words, which the draft states “demeans and mortifies” the Italian language, adding that it is even worse because the UK is no longer part of the EU. This is comically disre…
To be fair, at least officially, the first and national language of Ireland is Gaelic.
English wasn't dominant until late XIXth century.
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#339The current Italian government has introduced the "ministry of industry and made in Italy". That's what's it called, made in Italy , in English in the official name. I guess they're going to fine themselves.
"Fatto in Italia" would be just as good, but might not be as widely understood by non-Italian speakers.
Or just "Italiano"?
Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think its necessarily about the culture itself here, its merely a cheap populist tactic to rabble-rouse among a nation that has a rich history and struggles to handle the fact that its present isn't at that zenith. France do a lot of this sort of thing too. I would argue that belittling cultural preservation demonstrates deep Anglo-centric bias. While its fine for lulz, I worry that you're being sincere. Try…
I'm Italian, living in Canada, the reason why I'm attached to my primary language is because I know the most vocabulary and language usage. Aside from that, it's an unfortunate language, since you can't use to communicate anywhere else beside Italy. We tend to forget that the main purpose of a language is communication, when invoking cultural issues. If you have to penalize usage of English words, you are doing somet…
Difficult to find a word for 'snow globe' too ..