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ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

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Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#331

Post by Tainnor »

talideon wrote: post #70
hyperhopper wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look up Switzerland's gun laws and intentional homicide rate if you think so. That is a far more complex issue which is far deeper than such a simple correlation.

For the curious, in Switzerland, you don't keep ammo at home, there's proper registration of weapons with proper background checks, and it's treated more as a means of national defense, so having lots of guns is going to get you odd looks from people. Guns aren't seen as something for personal defense: that's the job of the police. In other words, Switzerland has a much healthier attitude towards gun ownership and us…

It's not just the attitude, it's also the sheer number of guns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

The US is so far ahead of every other country, including Switzerland, that the argument "it works for the Swiss people" makes no sense.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#332

Post by izacus »

worrycue wrote: post #173
Aeolos wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, the USB-C mandate is amazing and I wish it had been given as soon as USB-C became available.

Personally I’m uncomfortable that a centralised government is “choosing the winner” rather than having the standards duke it out on the open market. In this case, USB-C is pretty much expected to win and be the dominant standard - even Apple was already moving towards it way before the mandate - but it’s the principle of it. In what other area will the EU elect itself to “choose the winner” next? The whole thing sets…

Government also "chose the winner" with power sockets in the walls, mains voltage, width of roads, railway gauge and even the units you're allowed to put the milk carton in.

Those bastards, standardizing interoperability and making sure market is open for new competition!

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#333

Post by whiddershins »

rescripting wrote: post #7
juancn wrote: post #5

Why the need to bring it under control? Control from what? It's not the AI that's the issue, it's the use of it that's the problem. The law shouldn't focus on the AI, for example: >The regulation, proposed by the Commission in 2021, was designed to ban some AI applications like social scoring Ban social scoring, not the AI, the tool doesn't matter. Would it be good if it was computed by hand on paper instead of throu…

Isn't this the same argument as "ban murder, not guns"? Murder is illegal, yes, but fatalities are lower in places with gun control than places without.

If it is, it is good for precisely the same reasons.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#334

Post by layer8 »

luckylion wrote: post #242
layer8 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why couldn't that have happened in the browser though? That would require more regulation, by regulating both browsers and websites, and their technical protocol. Instead the EU tried to minimize regulation by not prescribing the exact technical means by which websites would need to obtain consent for tracking from users.

Why would cookie-handling in the browser require websites to be regulated? They can set cookies, your browser reads the request and then decides to store them or not to store them, or to only store them for some amount of time, based on your preferences. Browsers could already do most of it, and there are far fewer browser manufacturers than website owners, and they have far more resources than the average website ow…

The browser can’t distinguish between legitimate “necessary” cookies that don’t require consent and those that do. Hence there would need to be a technical specification of how websites mark cookies that do (or don’t) require consent. Even more importantly, for cookies that do require consent, the user has to be informed about their respective purpose, so that they can make an informed decision about whether they want to accept or reject the cookie. So there would need to be some standardized way for the website to give that information for each cookie, if the browser is to handle acceptance on behalf of the user.

Lastly, cookies aren’t the only way of tracking. Websites can also use local storage, or fingerprinting, and so on, each of which can equally require consent. If the browser consent mechanism is restricted to cookies, websites would have to be mandated to always use a cookie to ask for consent, even when they actually use other means for tracking, and websites would have to explicitly check whether the cookie is stored or not in order to control any other tracking.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#335

Post by callmetom »

dmitriid wrote: post #225
int_19h wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Czechia is a European country you want to look at for an example that you can have gun laws that allow civilians to own handguns and carry them for defensive purposes without problems. US is somewhat unique in the Western world across the board - no public healthcare, generally poor social safety net etc - which means that exercises in causal linking of those unique traits to outcomes are wild guesswork, if one is ta…

> Czechia is a European country you want to look at for an example that you can have gun laws that allow civilians to own handguns and carry them for defensive purposes without problems. Let's see: --- start quote --- A gun in the Czech Republic is available to anybody subject to acquiring a firearms license. Gun licenses may be obtained in a way similar to a driving license – by passing a gun proficiency exam, medic…

[dead]

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#336

Post by qsdf38100 »

danielbln wrote: post #329
lm28469 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well good things laws aren't based on your feelings. I also hate putting my seatbelt on and I'd like yo enjoy real life instead of spending so much time clicking the damn belt With the 0.1s it takes to click on a banner I'm sure you're fine. Most people probably visit less than 50 different websites per month, so at most that would be 50s per months, minus the banners you already clicked on, for which your browser al…

Strong data privacy is good. Dumb side effects that serve no one are not. Cookie banners, or California's "is known to cause cancer" on virtually _everything_ serve no purpose and should be re-designed.

The EU law doesn’t say you must have banners. If your site doesn’t collect information on users, it doesn’t need a banner.

Also the banner, if there is one, must have a 1-Click "reject all" button.

Most sites fail to fully comply, because they want to force (annoy) users into clicking on "leave me alone I don’t care" button to keep selling user data. They make you go to some overly bloated list of things to disable, scroll all the way down to finally "confirm my choices". It’s voluntarily painful and with misleading wording.

These sites want you to believe that all this clunkyness is required by the EU law. It’s not. It’s the good old mislead-into-approval strategy, using dark patterns and blame-the-EU rethoric.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#337

Post by fnordpiglet »

IMTDb wrote: post #287
kelnos wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You get punished for just looking at it. Not completely false, but misleading: you get penalized if a lender looks at it with the express purpose of using it to decide whether or not to offer you credit (called a "hard pull"). You looking at your own credit report does not penalize you, and certain other activities (like getting pre-approved for a loan) won't either. The penalty for hard pulls isn't that bad, anywa…

So, GET request not only aren't idempotent but they also affect the party that is read. Who came up with that lovely system ? I gave it roughly 15 seconds of thought and came come up with multiple ways this design fucks up people lives.

The key though is this operation only happens when it’s part of a requested credit evaluation for the purposes of expanding credit. The act of requesting new credit diminishes your credit worthiness. The intent is to throttle issuance of credit by providing for a race condition - if I go out and apply for 100 credit cards at the same time, they each get a credit report without the others line of credit established because they’re all in the pending state. But each request to evaluate the worthiness of credit dampens the quality of credit. At a certain point all credit requests thereafter fail.

On the flip side it also causes a hole that’s increasingly hard to dig out of because if you have bad credit or borderline credit and apply for a card to see if you’re allowed back in at the capitalist buffet, you enter into a feedback loop of diminishing credit worthiness.

It isn’t true however that any form of read changes credit worthiness. There are many routine reads that have no impact. It’s specifically when you’ve directly requested an evaluation for expanded credit. It can’t happen passively, as sometimes banks refresh your credit history and even offer more credit automatically. It also can’t happen for other purposes than expansion of credit.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#338

Post by dogma1138 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #169
dogma1138 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People haven’t been making loan decisions for decades in the EU as well. You put numbers into a computer and what comes out is either an approval with a rate or a decline. No bank EU or not has people manually approving loans.

You can file a lawsuit 'this bank does not give me loan because I am not white' and check. You can inspect the excell formula in the computer. It does not matter who personally made that decisi9n, the bank is operating this code and paid someone to write it. With 'AI' there is no way to know.

No, what you are entitled in the EU is to have the decision reviewed by a human, I fail to see how an AI changes that.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#339

Post by wyuenho »

lm28469 wrote: post #280
user249 wrote: post #4

Good. Thanks to the EU I have to click "cookie question" every where I go. Thanks guys for wasting the limited time I have in life.

You should try working in an international company, on the Europe side, and communicate with the US side. You'll quickly learn that what the EU does is very very very good for privacy, I have contacts in a major company and they were shocked at how the US branch operates, they have absolutely no sense of privacy, no anonymisation, no limitation on what is stored or tracked, no consent, &c. they just scrape and store…

I’m pretty sure your contact in a major company will be even more shocked if they knew what all these European FinTech companies do with their customer’s data.

All the important things such as purchasing habit that used to require indirect guesses are now directly available in their databases as essential functions.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#340

Post by teddyh »

jonas21 wrote: post #92
rlupi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like you don't know much about Europe. Let's start with browser. Opera, made in Norway. Search Engine. Ecosia, Qwant. Social network: Mastodon. Operating system: are you kidding right? Linux, Linus Torvalds is from Finland. E-commerce company, just a few : Otto Group (bigger than uber, close in size to Baidu), Zalando, Booking.com, Digitec Galaxus (Swiss company, now selling in Switzerland, Austria, France,…

The comment was specifically talking about "internationally relevant" companies. > It looks like you don't know much about Europe. > Let's start with browser. Opera, made in Norway. Opera has 2 or 3% market share and these days is a Chromium fork. I don't even remember the last time I saw someone using Opera. > Search Engine. Ecosia, Qwant. Both of these are wrappers around Bing and regardless have less than 1% marke…

> Europe has no shortage of smart/entrepreneurial people, but they often come to the US

That was indeed the case in the late 20th century. Not so much anymore.

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