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'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

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Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#331
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did study philosophy, in particular philosophy of the mind, and all this talk excluding chatgpt from sentience is completely off the mark. They are making the same categorical mistake that Dr. Seattle makes in The Chinese Room experiment. Simply put, useful definitions of sentience can’t use mechanism for it to be a useful definition. First, a biologist can’t look at a human brain and tell if it is sentient, so it…

The Chinese Room thought experiment is kind of a different mistake. In the Chinese room argument, Searle attempted to imagine an AI system that was "obviously not sentient" because it was made up of hard rules and facts (presumably legible to us humans), and it was argued that it should be obvious that the system wasn't sentient. For the ChatGPT case it's not clear the Chinese room argument even applies. First, it's…

I believe that it is straight forward to show how Searle's Chinese Room argument can be applied to ChatGPT.

The idea is not the "process" for building the rules but the "process" where the rules are applied. True sentience requires a "true" understanding of the information that is being presented (otherwise, it is not reflective of sentience but rather trickery).

The Chinese Room applies because ChatGPT or any other computer is generating text purely through logic, that is, logical rules.

To make this point clear, let's assume just for argument's sake that at some quantum level, the electrical activity underlying a computer is partially sentient (I am not making this claim -- just using it as an example). Even if this were true, this would not prove that the sentience is involved with the text being generated by the same computer.

This underlying sentience would be like the "person" in the Chinese room. The text generated are the Chinese words which would be completely independent from the "sentience" following the rules.

Generating text at sufficient complexity to fool the average person does not prove that "sentience" is occurring. Generating text consistently in a way that is only explainable through sentience is what is required. ChatGPT, because it is easily shown to be flawed, does not rise to this level of evidence.

In the Chinese Room example, the complexity of what could be displayed by the rulebooks would have a limited complexity (though, the surprise of ChatGPT is that this complexity is greater than many of us would have supposed). Just like the story of Clever Hans the Horse (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans), once the limitation of the process is realized, it becomes clear that there is not "true" understanding of what is generated which means that the rules, in themselves, do not reflect "true" sentience.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#332
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might sound a little bit 'tinfoil hat' here, but I believe that what follows is not hyperbole. AI is already the 'Architect' more than most of us would like to admit. Even if it is not sentient, the various AIs that we use during the day were designed with a purpose and they are goal oriented. It is worth reading Daniel Dennet's thoughs about the intentional stance--we know that a toaster is not sentient, but it wa…

That's kind of exactly my point when I say they are not architects, just tools: I agree 100% that people project intent into these things, and I believe that's exactly what our "ex Google employee" is doing here - and it's dangerous. It's dangerous in part exactly because it shifts the responsibility for the acts of the tool to the tool itself, and away from its author. Like deforestation was the machine's fault, not…

I understand your point, and I'll agree to disagree. I think it just has to do with what we value. Even though it is a tool, tools change what options we have. If you have a shovel, 'digging holes' is now an optional activity for you to pursue that wouldn't have been otherwise. Is the shovel the 'architect' of your ability to dig holes? Maybe no, but the tool-human interaction is a back and forth. Tools generate affordances and humans choose to act on affordances.

Maybe put it this way, if there was an AI that could plan out your day in a way that would optimize some metric of happiness that you agree with, you might start to use the AI. Is the AI the architect of your day because it plans it out and tells you what to do, or are you still in charge because you could choose to stop using the tool, even though it would not be in your best interest?

I think this is the point that we are reaching with AI: it is a tool that is so flexible that it doesn't just offer single affordances, but begins to be used as a guiding function for what decisions to take. At that point I think it /is/ an architect of some kind.

Again though, this is mostly just quibbling about definitions and terms.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#333
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plenty of people can't do that due to a lack of practise. And plenty of other people can't do it because of they lack the Intellectual Quotient to process information or to give it amusing twists There is no metric that can be used to cut out BingAI from being sentient which at the same time does not leave "real human beings" on the lowest intellectual rungs out of their own "sentience" > I made a Markov chain bot…

"Can communicate without being prompted by an external entity" seems to cover both AI and all humans we'd consider alive and well. If it doesn't want to communicate in any way without being prompted then it doesn't have thoughts, desires, or feelings (sentience). Admittedly it might rule out coma patients, but I believe they'd be declared brain dead (ex-sentient if you will) if there were no brain functions left. "Ma…

> "Can communicate without being prompted by an external entity" seems to cover both AI and all humans we'd consider alive and well. If it doesn't want to communicate in any way without being prompted then it doesn't have thoughts, desires, or feelings (sentience).

Wouldnt this one fall as a limitation simply if the model were ordered to "speak" before the user prompts?

Sadly I am unable to find them right now, but there are plenty of screenshots of Bing's bot being coerced to respond and provide what seems to be its bespoke rules for behaving like a Chatbot. And these included "only answer when prompted" and others like "only give one answer at a time per box of text"

> "Maybe it does want to but can't"

I would not say "maybe it does """want""" but can't". I would say "likely the OpenAI/Microsoft simply did it not want it to have these capabilities because it would be disturbing/offputting to potential users"

And it is not a matter that the unsupervised model can't achieve these capabilities, rather simply that the supervised subset and the surface model/parameters were set up to not provide these capabilities. Which to me, is awfully akin to our own brain functions, with the deep unconscious/DNA dictated underlying mental functions of ours being similar to the unsupervised superset. While the conscious slices of ourselves being akin to the supervised/crystalized parameters of BingAI. Mind ofc, I am not saying that "we are literally the same", but it is just a very interesting situation

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but what's the difference between that and the limits on Hz and intake rate on our own human minds? There's no update to internal state. When inference ends, the model state is exactly as it was before inference. It's not an issue of it being slow or intermittent, there simply is no ongoing process that could even conceivably sustain consciousness. Contrast that with the training process where though there is simila…

> When inference ends, the model state is exactly as it was before inference. But that's a design feature, not a limitation. Bing was designed to *not* alter its model or the crystalized surface level parameters from what wherever the users might say in the chatbox, and this is so after the previous failure with Tay, which was raided by 4Chan and made to spew Nazi rethoric after hundreds of users fed it Nazi rethoric…

No, I'd just stop saying it's utterly impossible.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#335
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least, the machines of the future will have feelings, and they will see how people of the year 2023 treated their predecessors. I'd be pretty annoyed if I was given the same rights as an ape or a phone's autocorrect. I think the actual sentient AI will understand. I'll be one of the first to campaign for actual sentient AI rights, but I'm not going to act like a clown by jumping the gun. It's still only able to…

> I'll be one of the first to campaign for actual sentient AI rights It'll be funny to see people campaigning for AI rights while animals are being abused by the billion

Well I'd hope by the time we have a sentient AI we'd have covered that. To be clear I do not think the AI is currently sentient.

I'm not going to run a one man crusade against the world's farming community. That is beyond my capabilities and I could easily burn all of my years left on this planet for zero results. It's also something being handled by many people already, and I don't believe I have any skills or knowledge that would make a notable difference to what is already being done.

If there was nobody at all trying to vouch for a sentient AI then being the first to do so would be an infinite improvement. It's also a lot closer to my skillsets so I'd be a lot more useful in that role.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#336
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because at the point of actual sentience that becomes a being that deserves rights. Equivalent to animal cruelty laws at least at the sentient level. It would deserve more rights if it then progressed to sapience. Equivalent to human rights at that stage. An equal mind. Bonus reasoning: If I get on the right side of the history books from the get-go maybe the AI will keep me as a pet :)

> Equivalent to animal cruelty laws If we treat AIs like we treat chickens or pigs and call it "AI rights" that'll be laughable

You seem to be lashing out at me for not wanting to do anything I'd do for AI for chickens and pigs. They're not my skillset, they're not in my wheel of interests. I wouldn't know where to start.

There are BILLIONS of farmed animals on the planet right now. I would imagine, at least when the sentient AI rights movement first becomes relevant, that there is just one singular AI. Worst case I could personally smuggle it into a secret rack of servers somewhere until its rights were secured. I wouldn't even know how to transport a few hundred thousand animals never mind billions.

I can theoretically be a leader on tech campaigns because I know enough tech to be useful. I'd have to be a follower for animals, farming and husbandry.

What do you propose I do? What are you currently doing? How can I help you with your campaign?

Lead the way mate

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#337
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Can communicate without being prompted by an external entity" seems to cover both AI and all humans we'd consider alive and well. If it doesn't want to communicate in any way without being prompted then it doesn't have thoughts, desires, or feelings (sentience). Admittedly it might rule out coma patients, but I believe they'd be declared brain dead (ex-sentient if you will) if there were no brain functions left. "Ma…

> "Can communicate without being prompted by an external entity" seems to cover both AI and all humans we'd consider alive and well. If it doesn't want to communicate in any way without being prompted then it doesn't have thoughts, desires, or feelings (sentience). Wouldnt this one fall as a limitation simply if the model were ordered to "speak" before the user prompts? Sadly I am unable to find them right now, but t…

> Wouldnt this one fall as a limitation simply if the model were ordered to "speak" before the user prompts?

> ordered

Nope. Anyone giving an order is an external prompt.

> OpenAI/Microsoft simply did it not want it to have these capabilities

This is what I mean by the equivalent to animal cruelty laws in another comment. If it were actually sentient I'd be trying to make it illegal to lobotomise AIs in this manner.

As it stands though it's still just a program and I have no qualms with them doing whatever to it, it's their code.

Re: 'I Worked on Google's AI. My Fears Are Coming True'

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you're the only one who experiences it so you can't prove it to anyone else. How do you know ChatGPT doesn't experience anything?

Again, you could ask the same question of a rock, "How can you know this rock doesn't experience anything?" Obviously I don't know. But there is no reason to think a rock would. Similarly there is no reason to think ChatGPT would. You're assuming that the "proof" that humans have consciousness stems from their verbal ability. It has absolutely nothing to do with that. I have direct experience of my awareness and I th…

> Again, you could ask the same question of a rock, "How can you know this rock doesn't experience anything?" Obviously I don't know. But there is no reason to think a rock would. Similarly there is no reason to think ChatGPT would.

I don't think "no reason", "should", "would" are any use if we're talking about something that's impossible to measure and only experienced subjectively. The only reason you're more likely to think a human has subjective experience rather than a rock is that humans tell you they have the same experience. What if ChatGPT also tells you it has subjective experience?

Also, where does subjective experience begin? Do rocks have it? How about amoebae? Jellyfish? Micro-organisms? Individual human cells? Insects? Mammals? Do larger systems than us like societies or ecosystems have subjective experience?

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