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Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

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Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#331

Post by wnevets »

trashtester wrote: post #330
wnevets wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what makes it so safe the tech or the government regulations?

The government regulations that were in place in 1970, combined with the tech from that time, makes most western style reactors, even from back then, incredibly safe. More recent tech makes it even easier to achieve safety, which would have made it even cheaper, had it not been for the excessive regulations (and other forms of red tape) that have been added since then.

> More recent tech makes it even easier to achieve safety, which would have made it even cheaper, had it not been for the excessive regulations (and other forms of red tape) that have been added since then.

Does that mean you believe there is too much regulations for nuclear power? That would also mean you would want to see less regulations?

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#332

Post by worthless-trash »

sebkomianos wrote: post #106
worthless-trash wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how media sensationalism helps 1-5. The people are already very aware, authorities are already aware, you're already aware. so we can't use the awareness angle.

I don't know what you mean by "sensationalism" so I will only say this: Such disasters need to be heavily reported on because that's the only way for better regulation and prevention. Furthermore, there is things that have to be done for the town to become safe and for the people to be taken care of and compensated. And that's about it, really.

We have a very different view of how media ends up affecting outcomes. I haven't seen many positive outcomes from media involvement, the cycle is too quick and the viewpoints heavily biased.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#333

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

wkat4242 wrote: post #314
IIAOPSW wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a different, orthogonal issue. Look it up there's a bunch of tedious FRA rules about crash-worthiness which Europe doesn't have. It makes the trains which can legally run needlessly expensive and they wear out the tracks faster. The rules don't apply to metros and subways, but if the tracks have any switch anywhere connecting to the national network then FRA rules apply to the whole system. The result is that…

Do metros in the US even use the same gauge as trains? Here in Europe they're almost always smaller gauge so sharing isn't an option. The exception here in Barcelona is Line 1 which is a wider gauge than all the other lines, for historical reasons though it doesn't share any tracks (but lays right beside the train ones at some stations)

Gauge is basically irrelevant, as the signalling is entirely different between mainline and urban (ASFA/ETCS vs TrainGuard MT in the case you're mentioning, and I have no idea what the FGC uses). Also, urban is typically closed network where the infra and rolling stock are all under the control of the same entity, whereas in mainline that is generally not the case.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#334

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

mikrotikker wrote: post #258
trenning wrote: post #177

April 2022 a locomotive engineer wrote an open letter to the STB about the dangers of Precision Scheduled Railroad trains that are so long radio communication doesn’t even reach both ends. A lot of armchair experts on here wrote him off when it was posted to hn. I worked with a former locomotive engineer at the time who echoed the concerns reported here. He left the industry after about 10 years because of the grueli…

LeMegantic should have been a wakeup but nope... Gotta make a few extra bucks for the hedgies

Lac Megantic.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#336

Post by trashtester »

wnevets wrote: post #331
trashtester wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government regulations that were in place in 1970, combined with the tech from that time, makes most western style reactors, even from back then, incredibly safe. More recent tech makes it even easier to achieve safety, which would have made it even cheaper, had it not been for the excessive regulations (and other forms of red tape) that have been added since then.

> More recent tech makes it even easier to achieve safety, which would have made it even cheaper, had it not been for the excessive regulations (and other forms of red tape) that have been added since then. Does that mean you believe there is too much regulations for nuclear power? That would also mean you would want to see less regulations?

Yes, and yes.

Specifically, I would prefer if all energy types were regulated according to the same principles when it came to risk/harm tolerance, emission rates, etc.

If a coal plant is allowed to emit X Bq/GWh, every other plant types should have the same limit.

Or even better, if you add all polutants together, one should calculate total expected harm (in terms of X * deaths/GWh + Y * disease/GWh + Z * Global Warming contribution, or something) and either set a ceiling on total harm, or add a tax on each power plant based on total expected harm caused.

This wouldn't necessarily mean that the regulations would be written using fewer words, but it would/should lead to an optimal balance between cost of energy and the harm caused.

The current system seems to lead to both harm and price levels that are much higher than they need to be.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#337

Post by pers0n »

vel0city wrote: post #149
anigbrowl wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last week has been full of horrific earthquake news, with the balloon nonsense as light relief. Couple that with local authorities and the freight hauling corporation saying that everything is fine, and I'm not surprised it flew below most people's radar. I submitted a story about it on Saturday and hardly anyone was interested.

I don't take the US military getting spooked enough to finally use F-22s to actually shoot something down, and have those somethings be publicly unidentified , as "light relief". All in all, seems extremely concerning to me.

I think it was political pressure at the end

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#338

Post by wnevets »

trashtester wrote: post #336
wnevets wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More recent tech makes it even easier to achieve safety, which would have made it even cheaper, had it not been for the excessive regulations (and other forms of red tape) that have been added since then. Does that mean you believe there is too much regulations for nuclear power? That would also mean you would want to see less regulations?

Yes, and yes. Specifically, I would prefer if all energy types were regulated according to the same principles when it came to risk/harm tolerance, emission rates, etc. If a coal plant is allowed to emit X Bq/GWh, every other plant types should have the same limit. Or even better, if you add all polutants together, one should calculate total expected harm (in terms of X * deaths/GWh + Y * disease/GWh + Z * Global War…

I find this absolutely fascinating with in the context of this article and the deregulation that has contributed to this environmental disaster. We keep having to deal the consequences of deregulation/less safety as path to more profit and fact there are people actively who want this for nuclear power is mind-blowing to me.

Re: Ohio train derailment: environmental disaster quietly unfolding

#340

Post by Accujack »

naasking wrote: post #262
Accujack wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about who is pushing narratives about this vs. the balloons in an attempt to distract the public, but I can explain why the derailment isn't much of a story. It's because it's being handled fairly well. There is a cloud of smoke that's scaring people, but it's "ordinary" smoke. There's no environmental apocalypse that's going to make that town "uninhabitable". There will be after effects from everything asso…

> It's because it's being handled fairly well. Even if that were true, which is debatable, it should be a huge scandal that this happened at all literally weeks after rail workers tried to strike over safety issues and were forced back to work, and that Obama required train brakes to be upgraded, then softened the requirements after corporate pushback, which Trump then repealed and Biden failed to reverse. There is a…

I agree that that is where the attention should be - on the rail system.
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