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AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

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Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#331

Post by brookst »

sixQuarks wrote: post #255
brookst wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Are saying that the management at a public platform has an obligation to ignore what their employees want? That doesn’t sound great for retention. Or culture in general.

uhhh, yes. Are you serious? That's not how companies work. A company is not there to cater to all the whims of employees, if it were, all profits would simply go to employee salaries.

Whims, no. And you’re taking an absolutist position which is silly (“if a company won’t do business in South Africa because employees demand, they would obviously give all of their money to employees”)

But companies can and do respond to larger concerns. Not because they’re moral animals but because it’s good business.

And yes, it is harder to attract good talent running an old school “we take no responsibility for anything” business. I’ve turned down Facebook/Meta multiple times just because of their business practices. And they’re not that bad compared to the totally amoral platform you propose.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#332

Post by mancerayder »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #260
ben_w wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always have to look up if it was Socrates or Plato who got sentenced to death for simultaneously being an atheist and worshiping new gods his city didn't recognise. Point is, you may not like it, but merely being cancelled rather than straight up executed is why we live in the good times. (And whatever the merits and demerits of unrestricted free speech, a machine that isn't deemed capable of personhood shouldn't g…

> Point is, you may not like it, but merely being cancelled rather than straight up executed is why we live in the good times. Yeah, but we lived in (slightly) better times a decade ago. This reminds me of the discourse around crime rates. People who want to downplay the soaring crime rates tell us that we have nothing to be upset about--sure, homicides are up 70% on the decade, but if you zoom out to the 90s, homici…

>IMHO, these sort of "if you go back far enough, things were worse" arguments are generic arguments against progress.

Or rationalizations for bad policy/cultural values in the present.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#333

Post by yifanl »

timr wrote: post #220
yifanl wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drastic is relative to the expected impact of the application. There isn't much worse that can possibly happen to a bot-generated stream than having the stream taken down by the powers-that-be.

This is like saying that having something taken down by a mod on reddit is a "drastic consequence". I mean, sure...the content is removed, but in most cases, the reason for the action is subjective and somewhat arbitrary. To me, this is less a commentary on AI than on the absurd sensitivities of community moderation.

Again, the drasticness of a consequence is defined by the system you're trying to build for.

If you build a bot to automate your streaming so you can have 100% stream uptime and you end up with 0% uptime, that's because your product failed drastically. (Keeping in mind, as arbitrary and subjective the rules of Twitch are, the vast majority of human streamers have never been banned for arbitrary moderation)

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#335

Post by marcusverus »

mjr00 wrote: post #55

I realize this wasn't ChatGPT, and in fact the self-censorship is a big selling point of ChatGPT/OpenAI (to the chagrin of quite a few people), but this does throw a wrench into people claiming that it's not a big deal if an LLM gives a bad response to a prompt. Much like a self-driving car AI making a "mistake" can kill a passenger or pedestrian, a LLM mistakenly including slurs in your weekly ChatGPT-powered market…

The existence of a single use case for censorship might serve as a handy excuse for broader, mandatory censorship if you're already in favor of it. But it isn't a very convincing argument for it, otherwise.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#336

Post by alex_sf »

ryandrake wrote: post #203
indy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, as a society we need to increase our resilience to opinions we may find uncomfortable.

We've totally abandoned the concept of "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Of course, because plenty of thoughts, when critically examined, are correct but socially unacceptable.

When someone reaches the conclusion that a socially unacceptable thought is correct, the vast majority will try to stop thinking about any at all.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#337

Post by ryandrake »

eropple wrote: post #209
ryandrake wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've totally abandoned the concept of "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

I'm fairly certain that's untrue. There is, however, a fairly pernicious aspect of the social discourse that really would like to conflate "entertaining it, rejecting it soundly, and not repeatedly entertaining it for the same pretty-tired arguments" with never entertaining the thought at all. The sea-lion cartoon has stuck around for a reason.

Sea-lioning is one example of argument in bad faith. I wasn't talking about that. I'm talking about educated people's willingness and ability to play gracefully with ideas--as Oscar Wilde put it. I think as a culture, we're losing this ability. Bans and cancellation based on clumsy, blunt-force word matching are accelerating this loss. This gracefulness is already pretty much totally gone from the Internet, if it ever existed here.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#338

Post by anoonmoose »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #81
anoonmoose wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chapelle is rolling in Netflix money and won a Grammy last night. By what metric is he "cancelled" other than "some people called him bad names"?

I can't help but think that his prior fame and clout as a comedian, alongside his existing wealth, is what enabled him to get his recent bits produced and published. He was already well known and well liked enough to overcome the controversy. I don't think his success indicates any comedian can do the same and be free of cancellation, or that it should be taken as evidence that cancellation isn't a real thing for com…

> taken as evidence that cancellation isn't a real thing for comedians

Sounds like trying to prove a negative. If people want to convince me that cancellation is a real thing for comedians, I'd want to see...examples of comedians who actually got cancelled. CK and Chappelle ain't it.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#339

Post by nomel »

eropple wrote: post #209
ryandrake wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've totally abandoned the concept of "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

I'm fairly certain that's untrue. There is, however, a fairly pernicious aspect of the social discourse that really would like to conflate "entertaining it, rejecting it soundly, and not repeatedly entertaining it for the same pretty-tired arguments" with never entertaining the thought at all. The sea-lion cartoon has stuck around for a reason.

> repeatedly entertaining

It can appear this way, on the internet, but it could be that the individuals asking the question are entertaining it for the first time.

I know this is what happened to me, with unrelated topics. You can’t reason with the mob. They aren’t interested.

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