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John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

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Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#331

Not AGI related but this has always bothered me. I know he’s super talented but I always wonder how many other equally talented software engineers never get noticed and toil away at crappy jobs. What’s the trick to becoming a celebrity if you’re talented?

Location. They will be ignored in backwater towns, but easily noticed in tech hubs

Like Shreveport, LA?

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#332
post #31

Carmack seems extremely lucid about his position in the field and the current nature of the field in general. While rogue scientists don't have great odds, Carmack is definitely doing important research studying off-mainstream subjects.

He has the technical chops to squeeze more out of his $250k LambdaLabs pro-rig than the average among the walkoffs and layoffs in the techsector or a tables worth of happy-hippos at a scheduled meeting sharing Excel spreadsheets in the old fossil fuel firms that have experienced stellar double digit billion dollar profits. Would that he mixes in his reading list some choice papers from the social sciences and social contructivists. The a16z group gave the impression they are into the social sciences in a podcast. General intelligence technology can help people bridge the gap before them to get where it is they want to be for the better. The educated might want to make known something from the unknown-unknown. The stinky hobo sleeping under the bridge with a smartphone could be guided to special social programs by Ai.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#333
post #214

> Well, you can tie that into a lot of questions, like, ‘Is human population a good thing?’ ‘Is immigration a good thing, where we seem to have been able to take advantage of new sources of humanity that are willing to engage in economic activities and be directed by the markets?’ > The world is a hugely better place with our 8 billion people than it was when there were 50 million people kind of like living in caves…

Without value judgement on the above quotes, I think Carmack is very much aware of his own lane and would say to take any comments outside it with a grain of salt. For instance earlier in the article, he states:

>I’m trying not to use the kind of hyperbole of really grand pronouncements, because I am a nuts-and-bolts person. Even with the rocketry stuff, I wasn’t talking about colonizing Mars, I was talking about which bolts I’m using to hold things together. So, I don’t want to do a TED talk going on and on about all the things that might be possible with plausibly cost-effective artificial general intelligence.

He likes to figure out new puzzles and how things work. He's an engineer at heart and that's very much his comfort zone. AGI is an exciting new puzzle for him. I'm glad he's taken an interest.

(Edit capitalization & punctuation)

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#334
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as we reach real AI, even at the level of a 5 years old, it is game over. So education or not education people will become completely useless to the rich that will own the AI

you can also translate "being useless" as "they having no reason to manipulate me into slaving as a cog in their machine/society/whatever"... I'd say uselessness should be our highest aspiration, when people higher up have no need to constantly brainwash you and social condition you into being just another cog in the machine you get true freedom.

We live in a capitalist society: workers produce wealth and capitalists control wealth. The day AI allow capitalists to produce wealth without workers is the day workers become useless. Of course one could imagine that AI allows to replace capitalism by something else, but for the moment that's not the way society is going too (more the reverse)

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location. They will be ignored in backwater towns, but easily noticed in tech hubs

Like Shreveport, LA?

Industries tend to coalesce into a few centralized locations. New York and LA are known for fashion. Detroit, TN, and TX are known for automobile manufacturering. LA and Nashville are known for music. Tech isn’t any different.

Isn’t Shreveport more known for natural resource extraction ie oil and gas?

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 40 papers by Ilya came later. I have read a 100 ML papers and reviewed preprints. I would say it’s more likely John Carmack is capable of learning the state-of-the-art of AI from 40 papers than a random (pun intended based on username) from 100.

Sure, he must be faster than Geoff Hinton too and it took Hinton a life time. Funnily enough, I am able to publish ML papers - but John Carmack isn't. I wonder why. I would also like to learn more about all the computer graphics algorithms Carmack has invented before I trust him to invent AGI. Here is one example of a person I am familiar with - Math Olympiad bronze medalist. Princeton PhD in ML Theory. AI researcher…

Your OP and replies kind of just come across as jealous that John Carmack’s opinion on this stuff is taken seriously whereas relatively unknown folks’ (yourself, the researcher you mentioned) opinions, are not despite the fact that he’s not traditionally credentialed. Like I said in my original post, we should be skeptical of him and his claims. But the way you are dragging this thread out feels like sour grapes. Of course one of the most famous programmers in the world is at least heard out when he dedicates years of his life to a programming adjacent topic. That’s just how fame works.

And calling out Princeton, Google, etc. further exemplifies an academic bubble kind of credentialism. I suspect you don’t realize how it sounds because you’re so in that credential filled world.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#337
What is consciousness, is an old subject, with old arguments around old miss-understandings. People here are trying to use new analogies from computer science (a clock work universe), or with miss-understandings around quantum mechanics (somehow randomness give me agency).

Until General AI needs to work for food and reproduction, everyone will still say its just mimicking humans. Best summarized by Schopenhauer. "A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills." So if we find where the GAI comes up with the original ‘will’, we’ll just write it off as computation. Go watch some Robert Sapolsky lectures. We are just a monkey society, reacting to stimuli based on hormones and what we just ate. If you drill down far enough, sure some electrons twitched one way or the other, and yeah, if you steal something, or do something the group doesn’t like, then all the other monkeys will want to beat you up and call it justice, and dream up some logic to justify it and call it morality. And eventually the same will happen between GAI agents. Because it’s just turtles all the way down.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#338
post #115

"So I asked Ilya Sutskever, OpenAI’s chief scientist, for a reading list. He gave me a list of like 40 research papers and said, ‘If you really learn all of these, you’ll know 90% of what matters today.’ And I did. I plowed through all those things and it all started sorting out in my head." Wow, that's going to be one of the more glib things I've read in a while. This is a bit of a Tom Cruise moment. I mean, I get i…

Have you read these papers? It's absolutely feasible to get the gist of modern AI in a week of 16 hour days, as Carmack likes to do, for someone who is already world class at CS and has a mastery of college level math.

Modern AI is very simple at its core! As Carmack mentions in the article, cutting edge models are implemented in a couple thousand lines of code, and the core algorithms are even less. Rust's borrow checker is more complex.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#339

This paragraph took me aback: But if I just look at it and say, if 10 years from now, we have ‘universal remote employees’ that are artificial general intelligences, run on clouds, and people can just dial up and say, ‘I want five Franks today and 10 Amys, and we’re going to deploy them on these jobs,’ and you could just spin up like you can cloud-access computing resources, if you could cloud-access essentially arti…

Why waste time figuring out I need five Franks and 10 Amys? I'll just dial up a one of me and head home early.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is going to make education way better and more affordable too. Personalized 1:1 tutoring in any subject for the cost of running a model.

Maybe but honestly any time I think about education I get depressed. People in developed countries seem to be regressing. People don’t read, don’t value deep knowledge or critical thinking, and shun higher education. I’m sure someone will find something to say in response, but the truth is that outside our tech and $$$$ bubbles most people don’t value these things. AI will just become a calculator. A simple tool that…

I don't think there is any regression. There are certainly economic realities that have changed over time but the general distribution of people who have an interest in education or entrepreneurship probably hasn't changed. The 80/20 rule comes to mind here. Most people in the 1800s weren't starting railroads or running factories, they were doing the labour of building the railroad or working in a factory.

If AI does anything I think it will make lower skilled and disinterested people more capable by acting as a 1 on 1 and minute by minute guide. They may not seek this out themselves but I imagine quite a few jobs could be created where a worker is paired with an AI that walks them through the tasks step by step making them capable of operating at a much higher skill level than they would have before. At that point good manual dexterity and an ability to follow instructions would be all you need to perform a job, no training or education required.

I realize this can be a bit dystopic but it could also be eutopic if society is organized in such a way that everyone benefits from the productivity increases.

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