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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#331

Flash reactions: * You could identify fentanyl passed off as heroin, cocaine, etc because they don't work as well. * "Damn this cocaine is weak. Maybe I need to take more" - I could imagine this leading to more fentanyl overdoses. * Something like this happened in neuromancer.

> * Something like this happened in neuromancer.

You just reminded me that I want to re-read it soon.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#332
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Variations of this concept are frequently used by drug addicts to justify continued behavior. "It's not my fault, it's society's fault!". Taking ownership of actions and consequences is one of the key pivot points in helping people get control. I don't think these are mutually exclusive. Society wide problems cause a huge fraction of the population to experience severe emotional trauma, and the process of addiction…

Attempts to replicate the Rat Park experiment have failed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park#Criticisms It gets cited in a lot of pop-science and podcasts, but it's not actually the groundbreaking, universally-accepted study that people think it is. Likewise Gabor Mate is more of a podcast, pop-science guy, not a real researcher. Take his podcast and YouTube content with a grain of salt.

I don't think psychology has advanced to the point where we can test ideas like this in a peer reviewed study on humans, yet as a personal experience- I have found that it is self evident once I looked deeper into my own feelings and actions. I feel those links do a good job of explaining the idea.

This reminds me, for example of the debate over Carl Jung. Some people say he set the field of psychology back with his scientifically untestable theories. Yet, I think it's obvious there is something to what he was saying, and it's likely he wasn't onto nonsense, but rather he was way ahead of his time.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#333
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Variations of this concept are frequently used by drug addicts to justify continued behavior. "It's not my fault, it's society's fault!". Taking ownership of actions and consequences is one of the key pivot points in helping people get control. I don't think these are mutually exclusive. Society wide problems cause a huge fraction of the population to experience severe emotional trauma, and the process of addiction…

>Society wide problems cause a huge fraction of the population to experience severe emotional trauma and the process of addiction largely seems to be an experience of trying to escape the feelings associated with that. So then why weren't addiction problems more widespread historically, like say 1900-1960? Life tended to have a lot more of what are generally considered traumatic experiences back then.

Weren't they? Perhaps they were just using different drugs, e.g. alcohol. You can't use a drug to escape negative feelings if you don't have access to it.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#334

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

Do you think at any point in the last 100 years if drugs were readily available uptake would be low?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#335
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, even as a legalization sympathetic person, I can _sorta_ see the argument when you look at how marijuana legislation has gone. Dispensaries all over the damn place and the endless variety of products and general "mainstreaming" of weed use... I'm not opposed in principle but as sympathetic as I am I can't help wondering if some of it has gone a little far. That said though, I totally agree that "legalize all dr…

I wonder if there is a correlation between an accessibility of cannabis and alcohol-related incidents. Cannabis is much safer than alcohol. Would my friends and I have drank as much as we did when I was younger if cannabis was cheap and accessible? Methadone is accessible for people dealing with opioid addiction, but that doesn’t provide a high so it doesn’t actually solve the problem of addicts choosing to continue…

Prescription of some kind, maybe in a similar but less permissive vein as medical marijuana, seems right to me too.

I'm pretty much in favor of letting people decide what goes into their bodies but I can't see a lot of benefits to freely available fentanyl. But I would definitely like to see an approach that decriminalizes addiction. It's a really tough nut to crack though. Not sure what the best approach is.

One of the purported benefits of legalization is that you eliminate some of the black market incentives for distribution. Prescriptions still leave room for a black market so I'm not sure they solve much... I'd be interested to hear arguments for any approach that could make the problem better.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#336
I was just about to create a new account anyway and my stephangaphy evidently is uncorrelatable, so may as well signoff with a likely-in-vain AMA:

Ask a daily Fentanyl user/addict anything?

Irony.

The kids trying to play it safest are the ones who end of dying.

A friends 5mg Percocet or 7.5 Vicodin Pills feel nice. Not really the first time, but the second? You're a little happier. a somehow pure, happy blissful moment. pure satisfaction. the world is exactly as it should be - youre at a party in high school! and youre doing the cool stuff!. things change slow, sometimes fast. depends on the money involved, and where and how the pills originate. but once they originate, they are analogous to a social endemic.

Pills feel nice, but they do eventually creep up, financially and tolerantly and socially, until you really need that one girls brother to be at KMart by 5:50 or your stomach will hurt Tuesday. All friendships are simply transactional, ledgers of who gave who what when, and, but "she owed me!"? But those people are dead now, because they were smart, and better. The were just doing medication. They weren't doing actual, yanno, _drug_ _drugs, like heroin or meth. Only dumbasses did that.

The dumbasses like myself - we did the math - the $dollar per / dopamine! we werent the dumb ones. Why buy 4x Perc30s for $60e each to barely feel a nod when a $5bump of H will do that and more....But we were the rest able to ride the dovetails of the last bit of domestic heroin import. Because of that, our tolerance and slow unremarkable experience and slow taper into being Fent intake saved the ultimate mortal moment, and prevented our inevitable unexpected encounter with the substance being our last mistake - yet.

Do I get high anymore? Only because I went without, and got relief. Sometimes my eyes feel droopy, or the two top most contexts in my stack of a RAM were just swapped, leading me uncontrollably to say something I was thinking about a moment ago.

Did I ever get high? Surely this year of continuous, continual odding had to be enjoyable.

I didn't do that math too accurately recently - felt too good for too long. Better refrain slightly tomorrow. Lest a lapse - and we can't have that, can we?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#337

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

Do you really think that Michael Jackson and Prince wanted to "check out"?

My assessment is that if even people at that level of wealth and success can get addicted to opioids and die, pretty much anyone can.

Addiction, whether alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, etc., is something that is a genuine medical issue needing treatment. Thankfully, the medical community seems to be shaking off the social stigma about addiction and treating it properly now, but progress has been very slow.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i suspect illicit fentanyl greatly outweighs legitimate at this point

any reason but speculation? If so, please inform the DEA! https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-...

fentanyl is a relatively exotic pharmaceutical and is not widely prescribed except in very serious or unusual circumstances. i have read a good deal about production shifting from china to mexico in the last few years with china shifting more toward precursors following a ccp crackdown, but what i've read today suggests that the bulk is still produced and finished in china for export, with india's chemical industry as a potential major new source. i found this collection enlightening: https://insightcrime.org/investigations/mexico-deadly-rise-f...

i have very strong certainty that illicit fentanyl production outweighs legitimate simply due to the fact that it is not widely prescribed while it is crowding out the entire hard drug market in the US, but illicit fent still appears to mostly be produced by china for now.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they were excited to go to some convention in Minneapolis that was all about mushrooms and psychedelics. What struck me was how excited they were, how into that community they were. I couldn't relate. I thought to myself, isn't there anything in your life more exciting than this? Are you always this judgmental of others’ interests? Do you have these feelings towards someone excited about e.g. a new video game or a…

Actually, no. Had he been drawn to a programming conference, I wouldn’t have been able to draw a line between the dangers he’d been near and those interests. But when you see someone in a situation, and see them drawn to the wrong things for the wrong reasons, yes of course it triggers at least concern. I wish a lot I had been wrong.

I don't think it's fair to conflate mushrooms and psychedelics with Fentanyl.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#340

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach.

Do you have any evidence that that works better than (say) buprenorphine or naloxone, which target the underlying neurological problem?

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