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Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

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Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#331

Post by oliwarner »

Domenic_S wrote: post #237
oliwarner wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a peculiar dig at community moderation. Twitter and Facebook repeatedly show how very wrong "professional" moderators get it. Almost like caring about a topic makes you better suited to maintain a community around it. The other side of the coin is that many communities wouldn't exist without Reddit, and many wouldn't be tolerated by Reddit without moderators. Many subs have been closed for inadequate moderat…

> Almost like caring about a topic makes you better suited to maintain a community around it. I think not caring about the topic makes you better suited to moderate it. It's way easier to dispassionately and evenly enforce rules when there's no possibility of a bone to pick.

I disagree.

Having skin in the game, wanting your community to blossom makes for much better moderators and community governance. They're far more likely to get involved in big tasks to fix long-standing issues. If rules need to change knowing the moderator calling for change helps a lot with acceptance.

My experience with paid moderators is they work in systems where they are vastly overworked so their willingness to actually engage with issues is low. Poor decisions get made. I've reported child porn and drug sales on Facebook and had a mod say they're okay. I have a few dozen examples like that. A lack of passion isn't good.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#332

Post by Spivak »

weard_beard wrote: post #276
Loughla wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by your nihilism. If the outcome is that I can get my money back (and I would argue that 250k covers a VAST majority of people, and then some), isn't that a fair trade for me not killing and eating a banker?

Consumer protections are likely to be 3 months out from the point of impact. As the saying goes, we're all 3 hot meals from the end of society.

If we're in a hypothetical world where a major bank lost say millions of bank accounts and for some reason it was going to take months to correct it would hit the news, there would be emergency legislation blocking eviction, utility shutoff, and debt collection, and interest accrual as well as all the lost bank accounts being credited with a some amount as combination fine/stimulus.

The fear is when it's just you.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#333

Post by notch656c »

Spivak wrote: post #332
weard_beard wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumer protections are likely to be 3 months out from the point of impact. As the saying goes, we're all 3 hot meals from the end of society.

If we're in a hypothetical world where a major bank lost say millions of bank accounts and for some reason it was going to take months to correct it would hit the news, there would be emergency legislation blocking eviction, utility shutoff, and debt collection, and interest accrual as well as all the lost bank accounts being credited with a some amount as combination fine/stimulus. The fear is when it's just you.

Landlords tolerate eviction moratorium with covid because only a fraction of their tenants stopped paying.

I think a scenario where just a few million or whatever were effected you are correct. However if it was almost everyone, landlording would become a straight up mob. You'd have to employ violence and bypass the state to maintain the properties and enterprise. No one would rent out property the legal way if they couldn't collect the rents.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#334

Post by cuteboy19 »

browningstreet wrote: post #161
ctoth wrote: post #10

I have long been terrified of something shaped a bit like this. Here in the US we already treat most workers like absolute garbage. If one day the Average Joe wakes up and finds that all his money is merely some electronic scribbles in a database which have mysteriously gone missing, the social unrest is probably something that most people on this site couldn't even conceptualize of. Today it's Zelle, but what happen…

I work for a bank in the US, and not one of the names you hear associated with scandals all the time. The level of redundancy and HA built into our everything is why our jobs are so boring and slow. We also use a core banking platform that lots of other banks use and it's properly engineered for the kind of enterprise performance we'd all expect. There are certainly problems in banking, but the FDIC protections are a…

> The level of redundancy and HA built into our everything is why our jobs are so boring and slow

I have also done this, and I can't say I agree. This is certainly one issue but the real issue is that these companies are not run by tech people. The tech is simply another cost center and gets no vote on how things are run. Many tech firms have equal amounts of redundancy but still manage not to have such terrible software

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#335

Post by cuteboy19 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32
ctoth wrote: post #10

I have long been terrified of something shaped a bit like this. Here in the US we already treat most workers like absolute garbage. If one day the Average Joe wakes up and finds that all his money is merely some electronic scribbles in a database which have mysteriously gone missing, the social unrest is probably something that most people on this site couldn't even conceptualize of. Today it's Zelle, but what happen…

> one day the Average Joe wakes up and finds that all his money is merely some electronic scribbles in a database which have mysteriously gone missing, the social unrest is probably something that most people on this site couldn't even conceptualize This overdramatises commonplace clerical errors.

Imagine the horror when the government declares that the physical money you owned will have no value after one month and you have to exchange it for a replacement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetis...

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#336

Post by cuteboy19 »

sowbug wrote: post #75
cptskippy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By putting the onus on the user to maintain access and security rather than the bank?

By aligning the interests of the custodian and beneficiary.

Money loss of this kind does not happen because the interest of the custodian is misaligned. The bank does not make a profit if your money goes missing.

Technical errors can happen regardless of what the custodian wants

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#337

Post by cuteboy19 »

courgette wrote: post #316
SoftTalker wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you let someone into your house to use the bathroom it's not OK that they rifle through your dresser drawers and take any cash that they find. People "hand someone their credit card" every day at restaurants. That doesn't mean that they are waiving fraud protections.

Just as a aside : the US is the only country I’ve been where the relationship with credit card is so … relaxed. My first week here, my conclusion was that people must be either really honest, and that you get refunded routinely.

Refunded routinely is the answer btw

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#338

Post by gatlin »

Loughla wrote: post #253
xattt wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be the 10th man and add to the nihilism. Consumer protections are there not for the consumer, but to create some sort of artificial social stability through recourse and take the wind out of any social uprising.

I'm confused by your nihilism. If the outcome is that I can get my money back (and I would argue that 250k covers a VAST majority of people, and then some), isn't that a fair trade for me not killing and eating a banker?

You are assuming that the institutions offering the protection will follow through for when you need them to. I don't mind people who do believe these promises made to them, but I certainly understand those who don't.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#339

Post by xboxnolifes »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #186
whartung wrote: post #176

I guess I'll be the lone voice in the wilderness. We've been perfectly happy with Zelle. We use it a couple times a month to pay service providers, send money to family. Never had any issues with it, don't need an "app" for it, works with our normal bank stuff. Similarly, at the same time, we got a check recently from a settlement. We plonked it into our account, and it bounced. It was a large settlement (i.e. lots o…

> pay service providers, send money to family how does the recipient of a zelle transaction know if it’s tax worthy (aka needs to go on 1099) or just sending money to family? i don’t see a way to “tag”/“flag” transactions same goes for cashapp

I would assume the recipient would know if they exchanged a good or service to be taxed. Usually family members know they are family members.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#340

Post by baby »

ctoth wrote: post #10

I have long been terrified of something shaped a bit like this. Here in the US we already treat most workers like absolute garbage. If one day the Average Joe wakes up and finds that all his money is merely some electronic scribbles in a database which have mysteriously gone missing, the social unrest is probably something that most people on this site couldn't even conceptualize of. Today it's Zelle, but what happen…

I know people working for banks in France and they basically have bugs sometimes where their customers are debited or credited twice. It’s a bunch of legacy xml protocols used for settlements and they sometimes have to pull a bunch of people to manually go through the books and fix mistakes. It’s insane to me that not more has blew up so far. I guess in a way banks truly are decentralized and so one bank fucking up doesn’t necessarily affect other banks.
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